Article 1181 of rec.antiques.radio+phono: Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono Path: news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!bsmail!siva.bris.ac.uk!ard From: ard@siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Subject: Re: Information/schamatics needed for Philco Transitone Message-ID: <23OCT199417255779@siva.bris.ac.uk> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: usenet@info.bris.ac.uk (Usenet news owner) Nntp-Posting-Host: siva.bris.ac.uk Organization: University of Bristol Physics Department References: <38beqc$3qj@umbc8.umbc.edu> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 16:25:00 GMT Lines: 53 In article <38beqc$3qj@umbc8.umbc.edu>, rdavis4@umbc.edu (davis robert) writes... [... Valves...] >14B6, 7A8, 12BA6, 35Z5 and 50L6. Is it just me (i.e. I grew up with them), or do other people find that the USA valve codes tell you almost nothing about what's going on, and that the UK (Mullard) codes are a lot more helpful. To give you an example, an Ekco clock-radio I have contains the following valves : UCH42 UBF89 UL41 UY41 Now, I can deduce it's a series string of 100mA valves (the U part of all the numbers), that it's likely to be a transfomerless PSU (series heaters and a half-wave (Y) rectifier) that it's a superhet (the CH part of the first number is a triode-hexode), that the valves are all B8A rimlock types (the 4* numbers), except for the IF pentode/detector (UBF89) which is B9A/noval, and thus it was probably made at the time when B9A valves were coming in. That's without opening a data book. Can you do the same with USA numbers? Other things : When were the Binode, Pentone, etc names used by Philips/Mullard? I have a few valves (Octal and P-base) with those names on them Is there a way of decoding USA valve numbers (esp the letter part). They're the only ones I've not been able to sort out - all other codes have some logic to them. And a Warning. Reading one of my books of 1950's radio circuits (1 pound in a second-hand bookshop!), I came across a few sets with AC-only power supplies and hot chassis. They used an autotransformer to supply a parallel set of E-series (6.3V) valves, and half-wave rectified the mains for the HT. One manufacturer (Bush?) even had a series string running off an 80V autotransformer. So the existance of an transformer doesn't imply an isolated chassis. On the other hand, sets with series strings of valves running off a fully isolating transformer existed too... >-- >R.D. Davis | -tony Bristol University takes no responsibility for the views expressed in this posting. They are the personal views of the user concerned. Article 1228 of rec.antiques.radio+phono: Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono Path: news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!swrinde!sgiblab!pacbell.com!att-out!nntpa!not-for-mail From: knudsen@ihurry.ih.att.com (-Knudsen,M.J.) Subject: Re: Information/schamatics needed for Philco Transitone Message-ID: Sender: news@nntpa.cb.att.com (Netnews Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: ihurry.ih.att.com Organization: AT&T References: <38beqc$3qj@umbc8.umbc.edu> <23OCT199417255779@siva.bris.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 21:16:45 GMT Lines: 65 In article <23OCT199417255779@siva.bris.ac.uk>, PDP11 Hacker ..... wrote: >Is it just me (i.e. I grew up with them), or do other people find that the USA >valve codes tell you almost nothing about what's going on, and that the UK >(Mullard) codes are a lot more helpful. >Is there a way of decoding USA valve numbers (esp the letter part). They're the >only ones I've not been able to sort out - all other codes have some logic to >them. Well, you have some grounds here -- the great book "70 Years of Tubes and Valves" by a New Zealander (talk about objectivity...) does explain some of the British and German/Dutch lettering schemes, and once you know them, they do tell you quite a lot. Others have posted code-breaking info for the American system. The 1st number is the filament voltage, which imeediately tells you a lot of other things about the type of radio the tube is for. The last number is the number of elements in the tube, which often includes the heater pins and the shield, if the tube designer was feeling his oatmeal that day. The middle letters aren't so great, but generally anything near the end of the alphabet and a low element count is a power rectifier. Two-letter codes where the first letter is 'S' may be a single-ended version of an original grid-cap octal tube, eg, 6SK7 is like a 6K7 RF pentode. Other 2-letter types are getting into TV tubes of mid-50s and afterwards, and most of us here don't give a damn :-) Seriously, it's not that hard to memorize all tube types made up till 1950. Early (pre-octal) US tubes had 2-digit "names" like 45, 78, 80, etc. Here again memorization is pretty much it, although the 50-series and 70-series were the same types but with 2.5 and 6.3V heaters. Thus a 56 and a 76 were both identical triodes except for heaters. Low 80s are rectifiers. Low 40s are audio output. >To give you an example, an Ekco clock-radio I have contains the following BTW, how to Ekco sets rate? Last radio club swap meet I attended, there was an Ekco tombstone of mid-30s style, with large G-type (head and shoulders glass) valves. For $50 I passed, since it wasn't a pretty set or dial, not even by US standards and certainly not like some UK sets I've seen pictured. And I doubted I'd ever find replacement tubes, er, valves if needed. Did I pass up a good radio? Say, would any of you Brits care to post some background articles about major British radiomakers -- years of production, emphasis on quality versus cheap sets? And is it true that your BBC taxation rules encourages using the fewest valves possible? I know Dutch/German sets squeeze incredible performance out of a handful of tubes (yes, the Germans call them "tubes" :-) And maybe some of us Yanks should describe a few US makes in the same vein. I just assume that everyone knows Zeniths are better than Emersons, but that can't be fair.... mike k -- m.j.knudsen@att.com /// knudsen@ihades.att.com It's not how many friends come to your funeral; It's how many collectors come to your estate sale that counts! Article 1258 of rec.antiques.radio+phono: Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono Path: news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!caen!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!oleane!pipex!lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk!warwick!bsmail!siva.bris.ac.uk!ard From: ard@siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Subject: Re: Information/schamatics needed for Philco Transitone Message-ID: <25OCT199416252363@siva.bris.ac.uk> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: usenet@info.bris.ac.uk (Usenet news owner) Nntp-Posting-Host: siva.bris.ac.uk Organization: University of Bristol Physics Department References: <38beqc$3qj@umbc8.umbc.edu> <23OCT199417255779@siva.bris.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 15:25:00 GMT Lines: 237 In article , knudsen@ihurry.ih.att.com (-Knudsen,M.J.) writes... >In article <23OCT199417255779@siva.bris.ac.uk>, >PDP11 Hacker ..... wrote: > >>Is it just me (i.e. I grew up with them), or do other people find that the USA >>valve codes tell you almost nothing about what's going on, and that the UK >>(Mullard) codes are a lot more helpful. >>Is there a way of decoding USA valve numbers (esp the letter part). They're the >>only ones I've not been able to sort out - all other codes have some logic to >>them. >Others have posted code-breaking info for the American system. Here's some UK information... Valve Numbers and how to decode them ------------------------------------ Mullard Code (Used for UK and European valves) ------------ This consists of a string of letters followed by a string of digits. E.g. ECC83, EL34 First letter gives heater rating A - 4V C - 200mA series connection D - 1.4V (Normally directly heated) E - 6.3V (By far the most common) G - 5V H - 450mA series connection K - 2V O - cold cathode/semiconductor device P - 300mA series connection U - 100mA series connection Rest of the letters give the types of device in the valve. They are normally listed in alphabetical order. A - signal diode B (=AA) - double diode C - signal triode D - power triode (e.g. TV shunt stabiliser) E - signal tetrode F - signal pentode H - hexode/heptode (Hexode structure) K - heptode or octode (octode structure) L - output tetrode, beam tetrode, or pentode M - magic eye (seeing eye ? ) tuning indicator N - gas filled triode / thyratron Q - Nonode X - gas-filled full-wave rectifier/double diode Y - half wave rectifier/single diode Z - vacuum full-wave rectifier/double diode Digits indicate the base (first digit) and a code to distiguish valves that would otherwise have identical numbers (e.g. EL84 and EL85 are both output pentodes with a 6.3V heater on a B9A base. They are otherwise different). First digit 0,1 - misc base - P base, side contact, etc 2 - B8B Loctal 3 - International Octal 4 - B8A 5 - B9G, B9D, misc 6,7 - Subminiatures 8 - B9A 9 - B7G GEC Code (Marconi/Osram Brands also) -------- Consist of Letter (or Letters) followed by digits (e.g. L63, KT88). The digits are simply to distinguish similar valves (like all triodes), and cannot be decoded. The letters have the following meaning. A - Industrial valve (Maybe almost anything - power triode, etc) B - Double triode D - Diode GU - Gas-filled rectifier GT - Gas Triode (Thyratron) H - signal triode (high impedance) KT - Kinkless tetrode (beam tetrode) L - signal triode (low impendance) MU - indirectly heated rectifier N - output pentode P - output triode QP - Quiescent push-pull double pentode S - Tetrode (Screen Grid Valve) U - rectifier VS - variable mu tetrode W - variable mu pentode X - triode hexode, heptode, octode, frequency changer Y - tuning indicator Z - HF pentode US -- Codes consist of digits, letters, digits, possibly further letters First digits give heater _voltage_ rating, with the exception that the codes 7 and 14 are used to indicate 6.3V and 12.6V valves with a locatal base Letters specify the type of valve, but there appears to be no consitency of coding. S often indicates a single-ended (no top cap) version of an earlier valve with such a cap Second digits give either the number of active electrodes, or the number of external connections. Final letters often specify the type of envelope. The code is G - large glass envelope. GC - Glass Compact - a tubular glass envelope GT - Glass Tubular - the smallest glass envelope M - Metal Envelope WA - High Quality version Mazda Code ---------- Consists of digits, Letters, digits. Do not confuse with a US code. First digits give heater voltage, except that 10,20,30 indicate 100mA, 200mA, 300mA for series connection Letters give type of valve C - Frequency changer D - signal diode F - signal tetrode/pentode K - Thyratron L - signal triode M - tuning indicator P - output tetrode/pentode U - half wave rectifier UU - full wave rectifier. Mazda codes tend not to double up letters - L is used for mulitple triodes also. Final digits distinguish between otherwise identical codes. UK Airforce ----------- Code consists of letters followed by digits. The letters have the following meanings : VCR - valve cathode ray (CRT) VGT - valve gas triode (thyratron) VI - valve indicator (tuning eye) VR - valve receiving (general RX valve) VS - valve stabilising (gas stabiliser) VT - valve transmitting (general TX valve) VU - rectifier UK Army ------- Again, letters followed by digits. The letter part gives the valve type as follows : ACR - Army CRT AR - Aroy RX valve ARD - Army RX Diode ARDD - Army RX Double Diode ARH - Army RX Hexode ARP - Army RX pentode ARS - Army RX Screen Grid (Tetrode) ARTH - Army RX Triode Hexode ARTP - Army RX Triode Pentode AT - Army TX valve ATP - Army TX Pentode ATS - Army TX Screen Grid (Tetrode) AU - Army Rectifier AW - Army Stabiliser UK Navy ------- Another Letters followed by digits code. The letters give the type of the valve, as follows : NC - Navy CRT NGT - Navy Gas Triode (thyratron) NR - Navy RX valve NT - Navy TX valve NU - Navy Rectifier Others ------ CV (common valve) numbers replaced the above 3 codes during WW2. There is no way to decode these VT numbers are USA miliary valves. Again, no way to decode. BVA numbers (British Valve Association) were assigned to valves used for civillian replacements in WW2. >>To give you an example, an Ekco clock-radio I have contains the following > >BTW, how to Ekco sets rate? Last radio club swap meet I attended, Dunno. Not too bad. I was given this one in poor but restorable condition. So I'm not complaining. >Say, would any of you Brits care to post some background articles >about major British radiomakers -- years of production, emphasis >on quality versus cheap sets? And is it true that your BBC It's difficult. My parents remmber Sobel as making cheap sets, but according to the books of circuits I have at least one of their rediograms had feedback to the cathodes of the output valves from a winding on the transformer, like the Quad II Eddystone made some lovely communications receivers, similar in concept to the AR88 etc. Otherwise, I generally look at the circuit before buying. All manufactures seem to have had at least one great design >taxation rules encourages using the fewest valves possible? >I know Dutch/German sets squeeze incredible performance out of a >handful of tubes (yes, the Germans call them "tubes" :-) Not that I know of. I'm sure the license for the period I'm considering (after the war) covered any set. I don't think it depended on how many valves you used. Some sets had a reflex IF stage (IF and AF in one valve!), but it wasn't common. Most UK sets had 4 or 5 valves, but there were certainly 12 valve sets made > >And maybe some of us Yanks should describe a few US makes in the >same vein. I just assume that everyone knows Zeniths are better >than Emersons, but that can't be fair.... mike k I didn't know that. >-- > m.j.knudsen@att.com /// knudsen@ihades.att.com >It's not how many friends come to your funeral; >It's how many collectors come to your estate sale that counts! -tony Bristol University takes no responsibility for the views expressed in this posting. They are the personal views of the user concerned. Article 1264 of rec.antiques.radio+phono: Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono Path: news.umbc.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!uknet!gdt!bsmail!siva.bris.ac.uk!ard From: ard@siva.bris.ac.uk (PDP11 Hacker .....) Subject: Re: Information/schamatics needed for Philco Transitone Message-ID: <25OCT199419534782@siva.bris.ac.uk> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: usenet@info.bris.ac.uk (Usenet news owner) Nntp-Posting-Host: siva.bris.ac.uk Organization: University of Bristol Physics Department References: <38beqc$3qj@umbc8.umbc.edu> <23OCT199417255779@siva.bris.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 18:53:00 GMT Lines: 63 In article , vancleef@netcom.com (Henry van Cleef) writes... >The original US scheme used 3-digit numbers---the first digit was the >manufacturer, the second tube type. Thus, UV199 meant a short four pin >bayonet lock (V), "1" was Western Electric, and 99 was the tube type >(actually meaning "-1"---WE designed the tube during WW I for telephone >service). "UX" meant 4-pin plug-in (like an 80), and UY was 5-pin (a 47 In a lot of manuals, the 4-pin base is called UX4, the 5 pin (like on the 807) is called UX5, etc. Are those terms correct or not. Most UK books (and a lot of US ones that I've seen) use them >pentode). That coding vanished around 1932, and only the last two >digits were used. > >In the great switch from 2.5 volt heaters to 6.3 volt heaters (remember, >all US cars were 6-volt until 1953---the switch was to allow direct >connection of heaters in auto sets), a scheme for identifying tube Indeed. Same reason for the common E-series valves over here (E as a first letter is a 6.3V heater). [... Info removed ...] > >The great proliferation of tube types in the 50's and 60's put an end to >any logic except heater voltage. Why so many tube types? Cheap >television sets with series string heaters. One nice thing about the UK codes (and the Mazda code) is that the common series ratings (100mA, 200mA, 300mA, 150mA (sometimes)) have their own code letters. So we don't need to remember that a 35W4 is used _because_ it has a 150mA (?) heater - we would use a UY85, and the U would indicate the 100mA series string idea. Of course if we need to know the voltage for any reason it's a trip to the data book. >> >>And a Warning. >> >>Reading one of my books of 1950's radio circuits (1 pound in a second-hand >>bookshop!), I came across a few sets with AC-only power supplies and hot >>chassis. They used an autotransformer to supply a parallel set of E-series >>(6.3V) valves, and half-wave rectified the mains for the HT. One manufacturer >>(Bush?) even had a series string running off an 80V autotransformer. So the >>existance of an transformer doesn't imply an isolated chassis. >> >>On the other hand, sets with series strings of valves running off a fully >>isolating transformer existed too... >> >I'm not aware of any US designs using an autotransformer in the power >supply. If a manufacturer was willing to pay for a transformer, the >standard versions were for a 5-9 tube set using an 80/5Y3 (125 ma. DC) >or more tubes (and push-pull 6L6's) using a 5Z3/5U4 (225 ma. DC). They were by no means common over here, but the odd one existed. So, since it could be dangerous (A common assuption is that a mains transformer _implies_ an isolated chassis), it's worth checking. You'll probably never see one, but it's better to check than to be fried!. -tony Bristol University takes no responsibility for the views expressed in this posting. They are the personal views of the user concerned. Article 1327 of rec.antiques.radio+phono: Newsgroups: rec.antiques.radio+phono From: Paul@paulplu.demon.co.uk (Paul Sexton) Path: news.umbc.edu!eff!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!olivea!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!news.moneng.mei.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!demon!paulplu.demon.co.uk!Paul Subject: Re: Information/schamatics needed for Philco Transitone References: <38beqc$3qj@umbc8.umbc.edu> <23OCT199417255779@siva.bris.ac.uk> <25OCT199416252363@siva.bris.ac.uk> Organization: Whale-U-Like (Norwegan & Japanese Cuisine) Reply-To: Paul@paulplu.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.27 Lines: 22 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 08:54:35 +0000 Message-ID: <783161675snz@paulplu.demon.co.uk> Sender: usenet@demon.co.uk In article <25OCT199416252363@siva.bris.ac.uk> ard@siva.bris.ac.uk "PDP11 Hacker ....." writes: > Here's some UK information... > > Valve Numbers and how to decode them > ------------------------------------ > > Mullard Code (Used for UK and European valves) > ------------ > This consists of a string of letters followed by a string of digits. E.g. > ECC83, EL34 > First letter gives heater rating > > Rest of the letters give the types of device in the valve. They are normally > listed in alphabetical order. > A - signal diode > B (=AA) - double diode Just a small correction, B means 2 diodes with a common cathode, AA means 2 diodes with seperate cathodes. -- Paul Sexton