New information is generally placed close to this point.
... " buying these old complexes and converting them into business and homes. "
|
someone wrote
> My friend and I have heard reports of people buying these old complexes and converting them into business and homes.
Your phrase
Yes, potentially one could use one or more of the old,
not-up-to-current-code, buildings for some sort of business.
Just as well as any other old, not-up-to-current-code
buildings. There is nothing special about the buildings
that would warrant the phrase "convert them into a business".
Same goes for homes, only more so. At best they were
Spartan buildings to house 20 or so single men
in each of several large common rooms. One guy
belch or pass gas and we all knew about it.
We all shared the same toilet area, usually without
walls around the toilet stools. Not a very romantic way to live.
> If so how can we find info on this? Depends where you are willing to move to. I have a high, nostalgic regard for the Nike equipment and program, but live in a tract house with two bathrooms - good insulation, and a garage - luxurious compared with my old Nike days. > Your help would be appreciated. My e-mail is ... |
? wrote
Could you tell me how to get a roster of the men who served in the 513th AAA Msl. Bn.in Poulsbo,Wash. in the years 0f 1956-1958. I was there and would like to look up some old bddies who served then. Mark Morgan wrote Two places to start: the American Legion and VFW. Both have "in search of" sections at the back of their respective magazines although you may have to be a member in order to run a request. I'm not aware of a 513th AAAMBn veteran's association but if I stumble across something I'll send it along. MK |
About Surface-to-Surface operation
Rolf D. Goerigk wrote
|
Please check:
If you are interested to see parts of the guidance unit (gyros) picture #27: If you like to see all of the LA equipment start at: Remember...the "computation team" (usually the ORE-Team) was responsible for the SS calculation. The calculated EL, AZ and RNG data was set at the track console and locked via toggle switches at the EL-operators position A SS mission was only possible with an X-warhead!
Hope the information is of some help. |
? FUIF ?
I was "talking" with Chuck Zellers and he mentioned "FUIF".
I asked what that was/is and he responded
|
FUIF stands for Fire Unit Integration Facility. This system was built (I think)
by Martin Marietta. At least they were the civilian company that had the
3rd eschlon maintenance responsibility.
The FUIF equipment was indeed a digital to analog system that was used to send data from a Missile Master to each battery. The data enabled target assignment and coordination of fire activities by Missile Master. A distinct series of symbols were sent indicating each sites assigned target(s), etc. This information was in addition to the IFF responses from potential targets when the Acquisition and/or ABAR IFF system was used to interrogate targets. Each Nike site had a "FUIF room" which was typically attached behind the building that connected both radar vans. The FUIF info was painted on the Acq PPI scope over the targets displayed. Different symbols painted indicated what kind of target, etc.
The FUIF room contained 4 equipment racks, each about 2+ feet wide and
over 6 feet high about 1 foot or so deep (as I remember). The left rack
contained the digital computer that converted PCM (Pulse Code Modulation)
data streams to analog data. This PCM data came from Missile Master
via phone lines. The converted analog data was fed the next 3 racks that
were analog computers used to display x,y and h coordinates on the PPI scope.
The analog computer was designated as the Ground Slant Computer.
|
?NIKE Tunnels?
? I presently live virtually next door to [NY-99] with my kids playing
in the school yard often. Rumor has it that there were "miles" of underground tunnels and a
missile silo. From browsing different sites it does not seem likely? Any ideas?
?
Question from Jay
Answer by ME
|
Well, there was a "silo", otherwise called a "magazine" where the missiles were stored. I doubt that there are any unless someone else dug the rummored tunnels, like for previous or post Nike usage, Nike was originally designed to be transportable - the "magazine" idea was developed for urban areas to reduce the expense and pain of buying large areas of land to reduce the risk of civilian/military casualties if an explosive warhead exploded. The Ordinance Department had strict guide lines about protective zones. These guidelines were not violated by Nike even during the Cold War. Nike did not need tunnels, and tunnels cost money, and there were none dug for any U.S. Nike site that I know of.
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Answer by Donald E. Bender
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The "tunnels" myth is certainly one of the more persistent ones when it comes to the old Nike sites. Yet, I've never heard of any special tunnels at any Nike site and one wonders why the Army would have needed them? Movement of personnel from site to site (from the Launcher Area to the IFC Area, for example) could be accomplished via public roads using Army trucks, other Army vehicles or personal vehicles. A half mile (or one or even two mile tunnel) leading from one site to the other would have been hugely expensive to create, probably costing more than the missile site itself. Yet, these rumors persist. Right here in Livingston, at the old Riker Hill IFC Area, the local kids who hang out at the base will ask you if you know about the tunnels. Or, they will tell you about them ... "Yeah. Those tunnels go right down the hillside, all the way to East Hanover where the missiles were kept". I'd really like to see such a tunnel! Blasted through the rock of the mountain, going down, perhaps 300 feet in elevation, diving under the Passaic River, to emerge a mile and a half away at the old Launcher Area! Think of the stairs, lighting, corridors, ventilation ... sump pumps ... Good grief, it would be an engineering feat. Nothing too exotic, technology-wise, but hugely expensive and in need of constant maintenance, I suspect, especially with a river in between, and potential for water seepage. Maybe you should offer a bounty for the first "secret" set of Nike tunnels discovered at one of the old sites!? Five-hundred dollars for the discovery of the first secret tunnel at a Nike missile site! There's a thought! But, I've never come across any references to tunnel systems associated with old Nike sites. Nor with the many other Cold War era sites they are rumored to be associated with (old Air Force radar sites, Missile Master facilities, and more). It seems there is widespread Tunnelmania out there all across the nation! It does make for good stories, I'll admit that! ;-) What do you think about the $500 reward idea? ;-) Best regards,
|
?Chicago folks resentful about loss of water front?
Question from John Braun
Answer by ME
|
> Hi Ed, > Don't know if you've had a chance to read the NPG June [2001] Newsletter yet, > but on pages 8, 9, 10 & 11 in Word, it shows that the residents of > Chicago and the media newsprint wasn't liking the fact that the new Ajax > bases were gobbling up their lake shore frontage. The City really wanted > the AAA gun emplacements to go some place else and then when most were > upgraded to Ajax sites, it seems it created quite a ruckus. When I read > that, I thought of you and wondered if you remembered any of the scuttle > butt then, and did it cause concern to the soldiers like you stationed at > the lake front sites?None at all - you can find 10 or a 100 folks to protest anything, and of course the media has to sell papers and TV time. Same game, nothing new - Actually we were a little sympathetic with the Chicago folks, we did take some prime recreation land. And few folks like to be reminded of everyday reality when they go out to the park to relax or cool off. Who can blame them? You know, you go to the baseball park to relax, and there is a cop to "keep order". Your tummy just tightens up a bit. You think "why is the cop needed here?", then you remember some troubles, and you wish there were no troubles. Actually, folks said nice things to us. We personally felt quite welcome, even though "we" had fenced off maybe 3 percent of "their" wonderful park land. I don't remember ANY unpleasantness over the issue. - Of course we arrived after it was a done deal. In Chicago "why fight city hall"? :-)) Heck, now we seem to need cops in the schools - Gads! |
?Old Nike Sites safe radioactively?
Question from J
Answer by ME
|
Old Nike Sites safe radioactively?
> Hello Ed,
>
> Do you know if a resident near an abandoned nike missile site needs to worry
> at all about radiation?
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
> J
In a word - NO, not from Nike related activities or mistakes.
You don't specify
a) which Nike site
b) which part of a site
however,
a) There were no nuclear "accidents" at any Nike site.
see http://ed-thelen.org/history.html#Accidents
(Radiation should be same as "background" at any Nike site
unless something odd has happened since closing.)
b) There was a radioactive substance in the ATR devices
(one per radar system except the HIPAR) i.e. One each
in the TTR, MTR, LOPAR, ...
(They were used to help keep the transmitter power from
damaging the first part of the receiver.)
There was a strict rule that if you received one,
you had to return one. We did not have spares,
they did not seem to fail in service.
We were told the ATRhad about the same radioactive power
as in a home smoke detector,
but it was a lot better protected in a tough brass case with thick
glass windows.
They were essentially match box shaped with dimensions about
(please forgive a failing memory)
Tracking radars = 1.5" x 1" x 0.5"
LOPAR = 4" x 3" x 1.5"
with thick glass windows on the long ends.
We were told that essentially no radiation escaped from the sealed
unit - but if you were determined and smashed one open
a) you would explain that to the Captain and other authorities
b) a very slight amount of radioactivity could escape
All those have long since been returned to various other
facilities.
c) There were rumors that the commercial voltage reference tubes
( I think something like 0B75, 0C90 )
were very slightly radioactive
- for more reliable starting to conduct/glow -
- like maybe one ionizing-particle per second -
actually much less than your residential smoke detector.
I suppose someone broke one somewhere,
and threw the evidence into the trash where it is
probably in a "land fill" buried under several
illegally trashed smoke detectors - - - -
so
a) I would feel very comfortable living on any Nike site
- assuming the weather was nice (no Greenland for me!)
- a good library or college near by
- friendly neighbors, good city services, ...
- (all the usual good stuff :-)
Cheers
Ed Thelen
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Earth Penetrators? Answer by jake the snake
|
Earth Penetrators
All kinds of wierd stuff was being disscussed, even the plan to carry a missile under the belly of a CH-47, lock on it with the M.T.R. and launch that way instead of carrying launchers around too! Apparently thats when there was a lot of trouble with tunnels at the DMZ in Korea and the General wanted to know if the Herc warhead could survive a hit and detonate underground and collapse the tunnels. I would go out to White Sands and survey in impact sites and then watch the bad mothers come in. From 100 miles away all you could see was a little contrail outta McGregor and then just cover your ears and wait for the impact at the site. You would see the explosion before you even heard the Sonic boom of it comin in.
|
Question from me
re: C-47 Preservation,
What is a Historic Structure Report?
Don [Peterson] knows of my efforts.
A Historic Structure Report is a document that
records the existing condition of a site and provides recommendations for
preserving, restoring, or rehabilitating the site. This is the shortest,
most concise definition I can give you.
I will be giving the
NPG
a copy of my thesis once it is complete. I hope
this will give them some direction in their preservation efforts.
Anjanette Sivilich
Question from Mark A. Daigle
Question from Virgil Hiltz
Question from ???
Question from John R Braun
If the
preceding is true, then the missile was launched away from the site,
dumped its booster, roll stabilized, and then could take steering orders.
This means the missile flew away from the site until after booster
separation and roll stabilization, then it could have flown over the site
pursuing a designated target.
Some out there think that the missile was
launched over the site or in a 90 degree vertical position to almost any
direction. Not true. Until roll stabilization (tunnel #4 facing earth)
detected by the computer (X Y orientation), the missile would not accept
any steering commands.
If roll stabilization wasn't detected, then the missile fail-safed.
When guys are visiting the old sites, they always
think the area defended was from the point of launch; to over the IFC; on
to the target. Probably not so?
Several sites were configured with the possibility of a missile
passing nearly over the Missile Tracking Radar. One such site is SF-88
north of San Francisco. There was no reasonable place for a launching site
between the high ridge (desirable for the radars) and the Pacific Ocean
to the west.
The "over-the-sholder" shot, where the missile passes nearly over the
Missile Tracking Radar, would normally place severe strains on the
ability of the Missile Tracking Radar (MTR) to maintain track on the missile.
A bit like watching an airplane go right over your head - all of a sudden
you want to turn around (180 degrees) to continue watching the airplane.
The MTR had the same problem - and special circuits were built in to
help avoid the problem
Remember gimbal lock? Launch sequence had
limitations as to flight direction. It wasn't 360 degrees. How do you
remember it?
People tend to worry about any limitation, but since the missile was traveling
at least as fast as any proposed target, this was not a meaningful limitation.
During severe tracking problems or severe target evasions, the predicted intercept
could swing wildly - a bit of a distraction when the flight time was long.
However, for several reasons, the missile was steered as smoothly as practical
- until the last ten seconds - and the 70 degree limit was not exceeded in real situations.)
Regards, John
Question from Robert Nocera
Comment from Ed Thelen
A long range (intercontinental)
ballistic missile comes in at about 19,000 miles per hour
and really stresses defensive radars to detect them at
a suitable range, and stresses the defensive missile
to get out there FAST to destroy/disable the ICBM
at a suitable distance from the intended target area.
Lets play at defending against an ICBM coming right at you at
19,000 mph. (That is 5.27 miles per second!)
If any of the above timing slips a total of 1 seconds, you are toast!
Point to the tale - defense against an incoming ICBM is non-trivial.
And we assumed a single simple target, with no attempts by the ICBM at spoofing
the defenders with multiple real and or dummy warheads (all too easy).
There is another little problem - assuming the above conditions,
the area that the Hercules could defend would be a circle about
3 miles in diameter. The Hercules just cannot get much further
than that by the time the ICBM arrives on target.
I doubt that Hercules was expected to do ballistic missile
defense work in the U.S. - Does anyone have a better guess
about the U.S, Europe, elsewhere?
Question from Geert Oosterbosch
I'm asking you this question, because on demand of our
Minister of Defense, the Medical Services are leading a
scientific investigation,right at this moment, to look
if there is a link between NIKE and/or HAWK radiation
and several kinds of cancer.
So, now the Medical Services are offering a free
physical examination to everybody who has worked
at a NIKE or HAWK site.
So I'm curious if you or anyone else ever has heard
about this matter?
If so, is it possible to give me some more information
or perhaps results of tests done in other countries?
Kind regards.
Geert Oosterbosch
In one word "no".
I get this question about every three months from European
countries, and there is of course considerable curiosity
about the effects of "radiation" in general by the population
of most countries.
In response to your question, and because of its repeating
nature, I am thinking of making a page possibly called -
"Radiation, mysteries, "fact", ignorance, and Public Health".
There is no way that you can say that this particular
wave/particle thing is going to do something that
will cause cancer - it gets to be a statistical thing.
If x people are hit by a dose y of some form of ionizing
radiation, some will die soon, some will never feel "good"
again, some will have kids with genetic problems,
some will show no ill effects at all.
The same is true even if the dose y is zero. Statistics ...
At least in the U.S., the "person on the street" is
pathetically ignorant about the physics of radiation and
also statistics, and is happy to listen to, and babble about,
an amazing amount of nonsense.
A favorite thing is to find two cancer victims living
near eachother and near power lines, and using that as
proof that power lines cause cancer. - One could wish
that life is that simple.
Heck - there was a billion dollar legal settlement about
breast implants where no correlation of usage to serious
problems was demonstrated. Tears and greed won the day.
Folk tale
re:
National Guard Museum at Camp Murray, Washington
Question from Patrick Haskett
(January 11)
Question from Kurt Laughlin
Answer from Rolf Dieter Görigk
Doyle Piland responded to the above question
Question from Kurt Laughlin
Question from Dale
However, because the topography of each site
is different (flat, hilly, mountainous, etc.)
and the exact shape of the available land
could differ radically (easy to get in some
wide open areas, hard to obtain in built
up urban areas) ... and other considerations,
the precise ARRANGEMENT of these elements,
varied from site to site and these arrangements
could be quite different.
So, standardized elements arranged in customized
configurations at individual sites (you can say
"tactical sites" if you want to sound impressively
military and knowledgable about this!) ... ;-)
> B'cuz the IFC is about 1 1/2 miles
> away from the rest of the base and I had no idea where to look for the
> magazines on the base.
You know that the IFC and Launcher Area HAD to
be separated by a minimum of 1,000 yards due to
the rapid acceleration of the missiles from the
launcher ... any closer and the MTR could not
follow the rapidly rising missile, would lose
its "lock" on the missile which would then be
unguided (and dangerous) and would self-destruct
within 2-3 seconds (internal timer).
So ... always 2 separate facilities, sometimes
quite close, other times, as much as a few miles
apart. At site NY-79/80 where I live, the two
sites are about 4 miles apart and in different
townships.
> I found a really weird looking water/sewage treatment
> plant, along with some other stuff. Were certain sites that were more self
> contained than others?
The sewage stuff if pretty much standard at
these sites.
More "self-contained". I don't think so. They all
had their own power-generation equipment and were
self contained in that way. Plus protective equipment,
small arms, gas masks, etc. Some US sites had a
more protected underground facility at the IFC and
Launcher Area to protect crews and equipment, similar
to the European Nike sites. See Ronald Erkelens
Web site (link from my site or Ed's).
> NF-16 looks like a few Army posts I was staitoned on,
> with all of the buildings and facilities (they
> even have a field house) I'm lost.....thanx, Dale
Nah ... you're not really lost. Just in need
of some additional information. You should take
some photos of the site, maybe make or get a map
too. You can send them on to me (or to Ed, if he
doesn't mind) and he or I will give you some
more ideas if you like ...
Hope this helps. Don't hesitate to ask if
you have any more questions. Keep in touch!
Question from eyza md. siraj
Answer from Ed Thelen
In this case, the top holding bracket will have
slipped off the launching rail, and the bottom holding bracket
will slip off when it slides off the end of the rail.
Many (but not the Nike) rockets launched this way are
totally unguided. To help correct for the inevitable
off axis thrust and other problems, the aerodynamic
fins are usually canted to give the rocket a spinning
motion. This helps counter unsymetrical thrust and drag,
helping the missile to retain it's original attitude.
(Straight up - or a reasonable approximation of it.)
Spinning was not desired in the Nike, and various
guidance and control systems were already on board
and could be used. In fact they were. Rotation
was suppressed during boost using the roll system
and the same gyro used to determine "down".
The accelerometers were active, and accelerations to the
side were suppressed during boost also.
So - you now have both cases.
Answer from John Meskanick
Team D, 66th USA Artillery Detachment, 5th Artillery Group, SASCOM was
made up of the following Officers and Enlisted personnel.
Commanding Officer , usually having the rank of Captain, was responsible for
overall administration of the team. Interfaced directly with Headquarters
and the German Battery Commander concerning all matters related to
operations, security, and special weapons support.
Executive Officer , usually having the rank of 1st Lieutenant acted as the
back-up to the Commanding Officer. Acted as the Warhead Officer if one was
not formally assigned to the Team. Shared responsibilities as Officer of
the Day and controlled special weapon release code books and keys.
Warhead Officer having the rank of 2nd Lieutenant supervised all assembly,
inspection, and maintenance of the special weapons. Shared responsibilities
as Officer of the Day and controlled special weapon release code books and
keys.
Team Sergeant having a rank of E-7 was responsible for daily operations of
the Team including supervision of the Security and Assembly Sergeants,
Cook, and Team Clerk.
Security Sergeant having a rank of E-6 was responsible for the security
force including daily guard mounts, inspections, schedules, and
administrative duties. Shared emergency destruct supervisory tasks with
Assembly sergeant. Supervised the arms room and maintained all rifle and
pistol qualification records.
Assembly Sergeant having a rank of E-6 was responsible for daily overview
of special weapon inspection and maintenance. Maintained all records and
log books for the special weapons. Shared emergency destruct supervisory
tasks with Security Sergeant. Supervised and coordinated all tactical
evaluations and drills.
Assembly and Maintenancemen usually have the rank of E-5 were responsible
for assembly, inspection, and maintenance of the special weapons. There
were three of these individuals assigned to the Team. Shared
responsibilities as Charge of Quarters and controlled special weapon
release code books and keys. Was responsible for actual opening of PAL
locking devices and insertion of arming and mission plugs. Was required to
be present in launching area during 30 minute alert status or higher
Clerk having the rank of E-4 was responsible for the day to day
administrative duties such as morning reports, records, general typing,
communication checks, and office duties.
Cooks have the rank of E-2, E-3 or E-4 were responsible for administration
of the messhall, food procurement, preparation, and kitchen detail. There
were two of these guys assigned to the Team.
Security Personnel usually having the rank of E-3 and E-4 were responsible
for day to day special weapon security. Pulled 24 hour guard shift
responsibilities every three days. Controlled all entrance and exit for the
launching area exclusion area. Controlled mission and arming plugs along
with Assembly men. Performed 30 minute checks on locked missile barns.
Were required to be present (two of them armed with M-14's or M-16's) when
missile storage building were unlocked or open. Maintained constant radio
and land line checks with Headquarters, Administrative area, and IFC. There
were 12-16 of these guys assigned to the Team.
General Responsibilities … everyone was required to stand guard duty
occasionally to back fill for leaves, sick calls, and other problems. ..
everyone was required to perform routine communication checks … rifle and
pistol qualification happened every quarter … everyone was required to go
on field exercises at least two week per year. Everyone had emergency
destruction training and responsibilities.
From Bob (ridr)
Answer from Bud Halsey Site Manager, Nike Site SF-88,
GGNRA, National Park Service
You are correct that the overall dimensions of "Nike missile sites"
varied quite a bit. You must understand first that a "typical" Nike
missile site consisted of three parts: an integrated fire control (IFC)
area; a launching area and an administrative area. In many of the sites,
the administrative area was co-located with either the IFC or the
launching area. This would affect the overall acreage of the "Nike
site". The size (acreage) of the launching area was also affected by the
number of underground magazines and the physical arrangement of the
launcher sections. The size of the different IFCs was also affected by
the type and number of radars on the site.
So, it is difficult to
generalize about the dimensions or acreage of a "typical" Nike site
since there is no such thing as a "typical" site. The overall size of
our site (SF-88) is: launching area-approximately 30 acres (with two
underground magazines; IFC approximately 7 acres and administrative
area--about 1 acre. Other factors that affect the overall size of the
Nike sites include the terrain and the location (sites in expensive
suburban areas were intentionally made smaller to hold down the cost of
buying the land). The use of underground magazines reduced the acreage
required for the launching area. For example, the launching areas in the
Anchorage or Fairbanks, Alaska sites, where the missiles were stored in
separate ABOVE GROUND magazines, had considerably more acreage (about
140 acres) than similar sites in the "lower forty eight".
If your question deals with the size of the underground magazines, you
must understand that there were several types of magazines. These
include:
If your question deals with how far below ground the magazines are, The
answer is about 30 feet. There is a pit below the floor of the magazine
about 10 feet below the floor where the sump pump, air and cable
conduits and elevator shaft and equipment are located.
From Bob (ridr)
Let's see---if I remember the real specs you'll laugh your ---backside
off, but here goes--and this was absolutely state of the art,
remember------word length 16 bits (two words), memory size--> in ferrite
core arrays and damn big ones made by hand, 64 k , and a smaller 4 k,
(I think). Also huge spinning drums weighing maybe fifty pounds
apiece--20 or 30 of them spinning at 3500 RPM, and collecting realtime
data from radar sites. The whole system worked in real time, and worked
extremely well. Cycle time? Why, the very fastest cycle time that
handpicked vacuum tubes could provide---> an astonishing 2 million
cycles per second!!!! The main control room had 23,000 indicator lights
to watch. Yes that's 23k. They kept track of the actions of 64,000
vacuum tubes.
Image of Sage Weapons Director station, 55 K bytes
From J.P. Moore
On the other hand, Zeus, Spartan, Sprint are very exciting, what little I know
of them. Unbelievably fast, so much to do, so little time. Technical
problems beyond my comprehension to be solved. Extremely low profile radar
targets screaming inbound, glowing white hot, as they unmask from the cloud of
debris, decoys, chaff etc. That, I find exciting. Also exciting, the ICBM
w/MIRVs.
Comment from Ed Thelen, another aspect - in 1955, life was worrisome.
We thought a Russian plane ought to be able to send a missile to follow our radar beam
back down to our TTR radar. We figured that we would not see the much smaller
missile until it was quite close to us. We were reasonably aware that we would not be paying
attention to the close part of the trace on the radar scope if and when they would
attack us, we would be watching the plane(s) like hawks. And there was NO comment
about that in Army manuals.
We thought we were in interesting times.
Answer # 1 from J.P. Moore
Here's is the URL:
Answer - George Runkle pointed out:
The Bomarc Project and
The Mighty Bomarc
Answer from Bud Halsey, Manager of Site SF-88L
Errol...
Assuming you might be able to find a Nike Hercules missile under the
Army's control (this is not too likely at this late date), you would
have to contact the US Army Tank-Automotives and Armaments Command
(TACOM) to conduct the transfer loan of a missile to non-federal
entities, municipalities or veterans' organizations. A federal law, 10
U.S. C. 2572 (a) deals with these types of loans, and the Army has
designated TACOM, with the Center of Military History's approval, as
their agent to make these loans.
Having said all of this, perhaps a more practical way to acquire a
Nike Hercules missile would be to have your other veterans and yourself
search junkyards and scrap metal dealers (who specialize in military
surplus) nationwide. There are dealers throughout the country that have
parts to old Nike missiles and even a few "reassembled missiles" in
their junkyards. Another source, would be municipalities who might have
acquired Nike missiles for display in city parks who now no longer want
to display them and who might be willing to transfer the loan to your
group. A search of American Legion Halls, VFW clubs or other veterans'
organizations might also reveal a missile or two. If a state's Army
National Guard once manned Nike sites, often they have a "trophy"
missile under their control.
This site (SF-88 in the old San Francisco Defense Area) is a
National Park, so we have perhaps the highest priority of all
governmental agencies in acquiring these obsolete missiles for public
display. However, my experience has proven that they are HARD TO FIND,
and at this late date they are practically unavailable. In my opinion,
junkyards are probably your best source (thats where I get a lot of my
Nike equipment).
Keep in mind, even if you can find or procure a Nike Hercules
missile, you would most likely need either a launcher or some other way
to display it. Also, you would need to work closely with the Air Force
if they still own Dyess AFB . Also, don't forget transportation costs,
assembly/disassembly costs, etc. Even if the Army has a missile to let
you have, they will charge a lot of money to disassemble it, and you
also have to pay the shipping charges. Even the National Park Service
has to pay the Army these fees and shipping the missiles costs, and we
are the federal government also.
I hope my answer is not too pessimistic, but frankly too many years
have passed to have a large source of these missiles around. Ten or
fifteen years ago, they were probably a lot easier to find. One last
consideration, there are still four countries using the Nike Hercules,
but even assuming they will soon phase them out of their country's air
defenses, we are talking BIG dollars to get one shipped back to Texas if
they elect to give or sell one to your group.
If I can be of further assistance to you in this matter, please let
me know.
PS: Did you know that we sponsor a yearly Reunion/Free Picnic at Site
SF-88? All former Nike missilemen, and their families and friends, are
invited to the reunion to have a free picnic, see our restoration, renew
old acquaintences and swap lies about the "good old days" when they
served with Nikes. The annual reunion/picnic is always held on the last
Sunday of August. This year, it will be on August 30, 1998 at Nike Site
SF-88 in the San Francisco Bay Area. Please let the group that you have
reunions with know this, and I would like to see you, or any of your
veterans' group, attend our reunion too. BH
S.O.S.
A half pound of beef may be substituted for the dried chipped bef. In
that case, skip the first step in the method. Browning will also take a
bit longer.
Melt butter in saucepan over medium heat. Add meat and brown lightly, 1
to 2 minutes. Stir in soup and enough milk to keep texture slightly
thick but runny. Heat to serving temperature. Serve over buttered toast.
3 to 4 servings. Each servings without toast:
159 calories; 1,757 mg sodium; 24 mg cholesterol; 7 grams of fat; 16
grams carbohydrates; 8 grams protein; 0.30 gram fiber.
Bon Appetit !
And from J.P. Moore's
book (used with permission)
No one could equal the breakfasts cooked by the chef de cuisine at the Base-Camp
Mess Hall, and nothing was better than a steaming batch of SOS heaped on top of toast or
hot biscuits and dusted with black pepper. Try this authentic recipe, and send a wake-up
call to your taste buds. Serve with steaming hot biscuits, orange marmalade, and canteen
cups of camp coffee. The preferred method of cooking SOS is over an open campfire
fueled by dried cow-pies and cholla cacti spines. However, it is possible to cook a
tolerable though considerably less mouth-watering version on a stove. (Real Desert Rats
will not eat 'stove-made' SOS. It lacks the unique essence of the smoldering cow-pies.)
"Also be informed that Greece, Italy and Turkey will use NIKE till the
year 2000 (and above????)."
> I guess Ft. Bliss is grossly under-represented on the site -
Answer from "Frank H Evans"
Well I was a student their several times and had little knowledge about the
place then. In Dec 1964 is was stationed their as my permanent duty
station. During the buildup of Viet Nam - Bliss opened a Basic Training
Center. Essentially the post consisted of the sAir Defense Schoold, High
Altitude Missile Department for Nike and Low Altitude Missile Dept for HAWK
and latter other low altitude system. Two major commands, one was a TO&E
organization known as the 6th Artillery Group and the Ist Guided Missile
Brigade a TA (Table of Allowance). The 1st GM Bde had training missions.
They had the Basic Training units, and also trained enlisted men in Air
Defense Operator type MOS (16B and 16C) (no skilled MOS such as
maintenance). 6th Arty Group had several Hawk, Nike-Herc and Twin 40 Duster
Battalions. Also we hosted several field artillery units activated for
deployment to Viet Nam.
>
> Also I have no idea when and how the transition from
Red Canyon was used for ASP (Annual Service Practice primarily for Nike
Ajax (was not big enough for the Hike Hercules [range considered]. Red
Canyon also did not have the facilities to accommodate all of the active
duty Nike sites for annual service practice. I was never at Red Cayon - had
friends that talked about it - was evidently a real hole.
McGregor Range opened about 1959. It had about 23 or so complete Nike
systems with IFCs online and downrange the associated launcher sites. Only
one site which was site 1 had an underground magazine of the type of site.
This was used to train officers (primarily 2d Lts in OBC Officer Basic)
from the Hi Altitude Missile Department of the US Army Air Defense School.
The rest of the sites had above ground launchers only. USARADCOM eventually
switched from ASP to SNAP - Short Notice Annual Service Practice. Units
arriving at Bliss billeted their until a site became vacant, then they
moved to the range. Maintenance crews receipted for several missile,
generally 2 Ajax and one her missile, assembled them then the crew prepared
to fire them. Range control would alert the site upon launch of a down
range radio controlled aerial target (RCAT). Two typoes - one prop driven -
another ram jet engine. Several times we used air force planes as targets.
The Site would slip the TTR azinmuth pot 1600 mils, so the target flew
south to north over the shoulder and appeared on the system as being on
course from north to south. a few time the azimuth pot got slipped twice so
the system saw it as it was and the missile was fiored at the air force
plane. Biggs sl\topped that very fast. One ime ush was the case and the
battery control officer activated the BURST OVERRIDE switch and the missile
passed the aircraft - ran out of fuel and landed in Mexico. Tell me how
much info you want and what type on Bliss and Ill try to get it together
for you.
During my stay (before deployment to Viet Nam with a field arty bn, I
commanded Btry B, 4th Bn, 6d Arty. We where mobile and had continguency
plans, and in the interim, was connected to NORAD and provided AD support
of the El Paso, Ft Bliss and White Sands Missile Range. Al;though we had
data connect to NORAD - most of the time we functioned as a standalone in
autonomous mode. We had a Birdie D Command Post at Battaion Hq for easrly
warning and C3.
By the way I saw in one of your FAQs, something about Viet Nam Air Defense.
They had NIKE on continguency but it was never deployed their. Would have
been a sitting duck for VC hit and run ambush. The Marines and the Army had
several HAWK sites, however I know little about them. As far as I know they
never fired for intercept. Until Desert Storm - the US never fired an AD
missile at a declared FOE. In fact in Thule the Soviets flew over our sites
often and we never received a weapons free once. Air Force would scramble
interceptors, identify and force them to return.
Mc Gregor had major facilities such as PX, Barracks, Mess halls, etc.
Suggest you check out the Ft Bliss Web Site www.bliss.army.mil and go to
WHATS NEW then to WHATS NEW AT THE SCHOOL.
They are redoing and there are a few under construction areas. If you have
never been there - I suggest it to you.
Was also driving to Gettysburgh National Battlefield a couple week ago
and ended up taking a few the backroads. Near Chambersburg is a rather
large Army Supply Depot. There was also rather small Surplus store that
had a Nike-Ajax on a launcher in the parking lot. I stopped to take a
photo but my camera didn't get the shot. Kind of surprized to run into
that out of the blue.
As we all know, the Air Force was in charge of collecting and analyzing
that kind of input. The only contribution from a Nike site that I
know of is the story at Tactical Headquarters .
1) Namfi in Crete was used by Holland, Belgium and Germany. Unlike the
US however, Air Defence missiles were operated by the Air Forces of
those countries and not the Army.
I ate dinner last night with a guy who had been stationed in
Germany and fired his HAWK missiles from "your" site.
He remembered the big radar on the hill that went
around about 3 times a minute. He figured that it
could "see" into Algeria.
Also the launching area were full of pieces from the solid fuel that
HERCULES use (at the moment I am trying to get hold of one fuel
piece, to analyse it-I don't think someone has done this for HERCULES
fuel before).
2) Nike sites from several countries were located in Germany (Germany,
Holland, Belgium and USA). However these sites were not mobile.
Oh - ah - (scratch head) - what do I/we mean mobile?
In the US, defending cities and other fixed areas, the wheels were returned to
somewhere and seemed quite unavailable -
I understood the mission of the Nike was to defend
the air space surrounding it, but the selection of the
air space seemed "mixed". (I guess life is full of
"mixed" decisions.)
Was the mission in Europe primarily to defend:
I think the best description was 'all of the above'. There was a Nike
'missile belt' that ran from the north of Denmark to the south of
Germany. In Germany this belt was reinforced(?) by Hawk missiles in the
east of the FRG, the Nikes were located more to the west. The idea was
that the Hawks should take care of the lower targets (<5000') and the
Nike the high targets (5000' - 100000').
Each battery got a PTA (Primary Target Area) from the Dutch border to
the Inner German Border (about 200 kY) and about 50 kY wide), and we
were told to defend it. Since the idea was that there would be no
communication possible in war time, we were trained to operate in
'autonomous operations'. That means each sqn was operating with no
outside assistance.
Target priority -as I try to remember- was: "Targets flying east to
west that would reach the imaginary north-south line through the battery
first". It was believed that in case of a Warsaw Pact attack, the number
of attacking aircraft would be enormous, and the only effective way of
getting them out was by means of guided missiles.
My own squadron e.g. was located on the same place (Borgholzhausen) from 1963
to 1983. Although the system was -theoretically- moveable, in practice
it turned out that the system did not respond well to moving.
Very easy to believe - a nice way of saying $#^*&^%^$@)
Yep!! I think the Dutch airforce had a go at moving a complete sqn once.
The repairs took about 3 weeks!
I was really impressed with how reliable the very large
number of tubes (valves), connections, switches,
and all of the other failure points turned out to be.
(Assuming you did not shake the system.)
It was a beautiful system to work with!! I think half of the equipment
could actually fail before you got into real trouble. I fired a live
missile at Crete, with a system that would be completely nonops at home.
Not one of the zero checks of the computer was in tolerance - it was not
even possible to press the sensitivity button- (what we called 'normal
abnormal indications' in Crete). After firing it turned out that the
misdistance at burst was about 12 yards!
Ah - that reminds me of a long standing argument
that I had with my fellow mechanics. The frequency
of the MTR magnatron vs the frequency of the missile
transponder magnatron.
Sorry, no on both questions.
Almost nothing - some reports say that he was self taught, never finished high school, but made
very interesting contributions and seems to have died in 1976
.
http://www.yup.com/microtech/history.html
http://alto.histech.rwth-aachen.de/www/quellen/transcripts/allaire.html
Goldstein: What was his position?
Allaire: He was manager of the microwave and power tube division of Raytheon
Company. Over the years I have wondered how he happened to come up with that
idea. I really don't know. However, Raytheon had a division that was
building transformers from steel laminations. Perhaps Percy Spencer carried
that manufacturing technology over to the manufacture of magnetrons. Percy
Spencer is deceased so I cannot check on whether or not that was his
rationale. In any event, it was a remarkable way to do it. It worked really
well. Working with copper was entirely different from working with steel
that goes into a transformer. Steel is hard, whereas copper is very soft and
malleable. It's a similar technique, but it had to be applied differently.
Original guesses replaced by
this information.
Comments from Ed Thelen
I do not have the Hercules "TO&E" (Table of Organization and Equipment)
and am forwarding this question to Bud Halsey. Bud has cataloged the
4.5 tons of Nike documentation gathered at site SF-88.
As you probably know, there is often a wide gap between theory (the TO&E) and fact (the people
and equipment actually available on a particular Nike site).
At the beginning of the Nike program (1954-7, with which
I am more familiar), sites seemed fully supplied with people
(about. 120) trained to the standards of the time.
Later, especially with Vietnam War demands,
U.S. sites were reputed to have been especially short handed,
some people mention 80 people (this includes cooks etc.)
There are also other variations:
Answer from Bud Halsey
First, your comments on TO&Es and modifications thereto based on
factors like the demand for soldiers in Vietnam are generally correct
and do affect the manning of any unit. There are several other factors
that should be considered also. I'll list them later. I agree with
your assessment that his questions are "rugged" ones to answer well.
Undaunted, I will offer some of my views in an attempt to give you some
basis for a more complete answer to Warren's question.
As we know, the Table of Organization (TO&E) is the document that
spells out the mission of any unit, the manning required to perform that
mission, the equipment necessary to do the mission, the basis of the
unit's assignment to a higher unit to do its mission, the capability of
the unit to perform its mission, how many subordinate units it has
assigned or attached, and various other factors like mobility
requirements to move it, maintenance capability, etc., etc.
The part of
the TO&E of EVERY unit in the Army that gives me (an old infantryman)
the most satisfaction, is the requirement for them to "fight as infantry
as required". This sort of sets the importance of the infantry, and has
sent a chill up the backs of many a Nike man, quartermaster, or judge
advocate.
We also know that TO&Es are often "modified" to meet certain
requirements (e.g. units in the Arctic have their TO&E modified to add
skis and cold weather gear beyond the equipment found in their TO&E).
These are called "modified tables of organization (MTO&E). TO&Es are
often augmented with augmentation teams who perform special tasks or
augment existing capabilities of a TO&E. Air Defense units have many
augmentation teams, because there is really no "standard" air defense
unit.
With this in mind, lets look at the TO&E of selected Nike units. Keep
in mind, the "series" of a TO&E changes from time to time based on
technologies, overall Army strength, and other factors. For this opus, I
have selected the "Series G" TO&Es of the early 1970s--the time of the
greatest number of Nike units. Listed below are selected personnel
requirements for selected Air Defense (ADA) units:
A "typical" ADA Battalion (TO&E 44-145) is organized with a
Headquarters and Headquarters Battery (HHB); 4 Firing Batteries (A,B,C
and D); and a Medical Section.
An HHB consists of a Headquarters (Commander and his staff);
Headquarters Battery with an operations and intelligence section; an
admin and supply section; a battalion motor maintenance section; a
communications section; a radar section and an assembly and service
section. A "typical" firing battery consists of a headquarters section;
a communications section; an IFC platoon; and a launch platoon. Each
launch platoon consists of a platoon headquarters section and 3 firing
sections. Thus you can see the basic framework to develop the manning
requirements for a specific site. SF-88, for example, had only two
firing sections (not 3) in the launch platoon and probably
needed some maintenance, transportation and mess personnel (augmentation
teams).
Augmentation teams were essential to "modify" the TO&E of most Conus
Nike Ajax and Nike Hercules units. Because of remote locations,
topography, need to cover the defense areas, and a host of other
reasons, very few Nike sites had MTO&Es that were similar. Almost all
were augmented with special teams that varied in size from 2 to 50
personnel. A few selected Nike-oriented Augmentation teams typically
found in Conus Nike sites include the following:
Generally, the TO&E of a particular unit assumes 24-hour a day
operation over a sustained period of combat. There is a little
flexibility built in, but not much. For example, the TO&E of a firing
battery provides sufficient manpower to perform the mission. Usually,
the crews worked a 24-hour shift on and a 24-hour shift off. They were
expected to perform their mission over a sustained period of operations.
The development of a TO&E also takes into account that a unit will
sustain casualties, have men on other duty elsewhere and a variety of
other reasons that a unit may be undermanned. However, the unit is
expected to perform its mission until its strength drops below
established levels (usually spelled out in manning documents). If a
unit drops below established "unit effectiveness" levels, it will
receive replacements or will be removed from combat and replaced with
another new unit. A unit so removed, will be pulled off line,
re-manned, re-trained and then returned to combat.
Units habitually work with less than TO&E authorizations of personnel
and equipment. This just means that those who are present, work longer
and harder.
There are many reasons that units work understaffed. Competing
requirements for personnel to do other higher priority work, overseas
levies, "special duty" assignments all contribute to different manning
levels. When a unit is short-handed, procedures may have to be
modified. For example, in a firing battery launching platoon, there may
be a requirement for 4 men to manually push the missile onto the
launcher from the elevator. However, a lesser number can do the job--not
as safely or not according to "the book", but never the less, they can
do it.
One last point to consider is the fact that many units of Nike
missiles were part of the Army National Guard. There would always be a
cadre of "full-timers" on a site, and a number of "part timers" at home
or away from the site until called in for routine drills (one weekend a
month and a 2-week annual training period) or in emergencies. MTO&Es
would spell out the minimum number of positions to be manned by
"full-timers" and "part-timers" would augment them.
These are some of my thoughts regarding manning requirements for Nike
units and a short discussion on TO&Es and MTO&Es
Regards, Bud Halsey
... how come only six rockets, i would have thought that for the
money that was being spent on the site and maintance and man power , when
push came to shove, I would want a lot more than 6 lousey rocks to throw at the
bear.
Answer from Bud Halsey
Ed and Doug...
There were six types of "pits" in the Continental United States
(CONUS). Besides these underground magazine types, there were other
above-ground or underground magazine types found at Strategic Air
Command bases in CONUS (SAC); Alaska (USARAL); Europe (USAREUR); Thule,
Greenland ("Rising Star" that held ten Nike Hercules missiles below
ground); and other overseas locations where US Army Nike units were
deployed (e.g. Okinawa or Taiwan).
There were also modifications to
some of the "pit" types concerning the location of the elevators. There
were no Type A "pits" ever built in any defense area. Most Nike Ajax
missiles were stored in Type B, Type C or Type B (Modified) and Type C
(Modified) "pits". Type B (Mod) "pits" and Type C (Mod) "pits" were
modified to accommodate the larger Nike Hercules missile, and both Ajax
and Hercules were stored in them (but not mixed in one pit) from time to
time. Type D "pits" were larger than the former Nike Ajax Type B and C
"pits", and were built during the "second system" of Nike defenses added
in the early 1960s for Nike Hercules missiles. In no "pit" were missiles
stored on the elevator.
Doug, you seemed concerned about the money spent on each site with only
"six rockets"..."to throw at the bear". Keep in mind that the figures
above pertain to each "pit". Most sites in CONUS had from two to four
"pits" and the "double sites" had six "pits" usually, so the number of
missiles "to throw at the bear" increases significantly. Add the number
of sites in a defense area, and the number of missiles increases
further. San Francisco, for example, had 340 Nike missiles at 12 sites,
and later 96 Nike Hercules missiles at 7 sites at one time or another to
"throw at the bear".
I hope this answers your questions/concerns. Bud Halsey
Answer from Bud Halsey
You asked me to answer the question about future NPS plans to open more
sites. I seriously doubt that the National Park Service will open more
sites for the following reasons:
So, the bottom line is, I doubt whether the NPS will ever restore
another Nike site when they have SF-88. However, I don't speak for the
NPS officially.
Return to beginning of Frequently Asked Questions
Response from Ed Thelen
We were told that a single warhead would not properly shatter the missile into shrapnel.
The intent was to get all of the missile into small pieces, a bit like a shotgun.
So there was a warhead in the nose area, the middle area, and the tail area.
The anti-aircraft problem can be related to the duck hunting problem. A skilled mortal
shooting at a flying duck with a 7 mm rifle has very little probability of hitting the duck.
A 7 mm bullet striking the body of a duck at 2000 miles per hour is "over-kill".
(One or two 2 mm high speed objects from a shotgun is enough.)
So, the general goal is to have a large number of small high speed objects in the general
area of the duck (or aircraft). The shotgun's "pattern" of the objects should be dense enough
so it is almost certain that the duck (or aircraft) will be disabled by the
small high speed objects.
The specific goal for the Ajax warhead system was to fill the air with small high speed objects,
including the missile being reduced to small high speed parts.
Using 3 warheads distributed along the length of the missile increases to shattering effect
on the missile and increases the number and speed of missile parts and fragments.
Return to beginning of Frequently Asked Questions
I asked this question of many of the Nike vets at the 1997 reunion.
Some had served in Korea and some in Vietnam and Okinawa. None had
heard any stories of any Nike firing at a hostile (or friendly) plane.
Answer - still in process - trying to find flight and guidance
SA-2 info
Notes:
Bob and I have been e-mailing a bit:
The info suggests that the Long range VHF was jammed so the NVA searched
with the Fan Song and the US then threw ARMS at the FAn Songs.
The Last model (F) of the Fan Song had a visual tracking system installed
to help in heavy ECM.
The SA-2 had problems at very high altitude as there it had plenty of
energy but no air. Trying to shoot down U-2's the operators could get
the missiles up to the right altitude but not control it when it gets there.
Most of the reports of out flying it are ones like F4's at low level. The
pilots could see it coming bacause the booster produced a lot of smoke. It
seems the drill with F4's was the back seater kept an eye out for SA-2
launches.
One report I was reading was from a F4 pilot Isralie airforce. He tried to
out turn a SA-2 having done it several times before however it was an
SA-3 and it could turn with him! He was in the silk after that.
Ed Thelen says "no I did not, thanks for the input". Checking into it a little, their
Web Page is
http://www.techexpo.com/firms/radiores.html where you can request
a 24 page catalog which lists a vast array of "old" radar equipment which they have working.
A summary list in the catalog includes "Nike Hercules-Ajax, Raytheon Hawk, M-33, SCR-584,".
Some of the Nike related equipment included:
The catalog does not state the prices, but the owner indicated that the prices
might not appeal to the casual hobbyist.
Answer from Ron Loving
This question falls under "Command and Control" and "Battery
Operations". The "Army Air Defense Command Post" (AADCP) controlled the
battery. It also was the controlling agent for the Battalion and Group
headquarters that you were under. Behind that, the AIR FORCE had
control of the AADCP.
Before your battery went to "Blazing Skies" or (the one that never
came) "Battle Stations" the battery was at a 30 or 15 min. alert
status. During this time the battery received instructions as to what
type and number of rounds to load on the launchers. This gave the
launcher crewman time to take the missiles out of the magazine (if msls
were in storage) and get them on the launchers and erected into the
firing position. When the battery was brought up to "Blazing Skies" or
"Battle Stations" AADCP again told you what to fire (what type of
warhead).
The BCO (Battery Control Officer), by selecting a series of
switches in the IFC van, told the launch control officer what type of
round (Warhead) he wanted to fire. This information was also
transmitted back down the line to AADCP for verification. The launch
control officer or NCO would then select the best available missile and
select it through setting switches on the Launcher Control Box (don't
think that is the correct name of the box---Crew Chief Junction Box or
CCJB in HAWK). When the BCO gave the order to fire, the command was
transmitted down to the launching area where the button was actually
pressed to launch the missile.
Battery Operations --- While the battery is at the 30 min status
(this means that you have 30 min. to get a round off) the battery
"Stacks all Equipment" on the Pulse Acquisition Radar (PAR). In the
fire control van was a series of precision resistors, each on a small
chassis, and rack mounted. All of the other radar's were
"Electronically" stacked on top of the PAR ( the electronic center of
the battery) by using its own system that allowed the equipment to
become one big system on the same point on the ground as the PAR. The
resisters (mentioned above) were used to set the individual launcher
"Parallax" ( distance to the launchers from the center of the battery
-- center of the PAR) into the batteries computer system and would
again electronically stack the launchers, with all of the other
equipment, on top of the PAR.
With the AZ, EL and Parallax range to the individual launchers set into
the computer the MTR had no problem slewing to the launcher selected by
the launch control officer. During the 30 min or 1 hr preparation
phase, the ability of the MTR to slew to the location of each launcher
was checked and again during battery crew drills.
After remembering that far back and pulling this much out of the grey
matter, I think its time for two Excedrin's or one Michelob!! Hope
this answered the questions and did not produce more question, (which I
will gladly answer, if there are)..
We tested, extensively the Herc in a surface-to-surface mode.
The longest shot we made was 110 miles, surface-to-surface. We
designed "Deep Earth" penetrating warheads to be used to
destroy bridges or to produce deep craters at the approaches to
bridges.
The accuracy of the system in the surface-to-surface mode was
extremely good. For example, if our range was say 30 miles,
not only could you choose which house you wanted us to hit, you
could also choose which room. If our range was say 100 miles,
you could choose which house you wanted to hit. We shot the
missile, in a surface-to-surface mode at mock motor pools and
troop encampments. It destroyed everything.
(Update from Charlie Mar 15, 1998)
Question: How big was a Hercules conventional warhead?
Comment: "I have not seen...for going nuclear."
Comment: "I believe each magazine...warheads."
Comment: from Roger Rigney
Just read your FAQ'S and believe you are not exactly correct on storage
of conventional and nuclears .... They generally were stored together,
intermixed in the very same places .... In Korea and possibly some other places they
were separate in an area to themselves called a "Maximum Security Area" . I was
a launcher crewman and crew chief for eight years, so I have first hand
info.
Comments from Charlie Hancock chancock@HiWAAY.net
Later the HE warhead was installed in tactical missiles,
especially in overseas locations.
In addition, a warhead designated T-46 was developed, tested,
but never deployed. It was a "Sub-munitions" warhead. Looked
like a 55 gal barrel with small, round sub-munitions attached
to it. The idea was the main charge would explode, sending the
sub-munitions into the interior of an aircraft or when used in
a surface-to-surface mode would scatter in a wide dispersment.
We also shot a Herc missile at a Herc missile. It hit it. We
shot a herc missile way up (over 200K ft), turned it around and
fired it back in as a target. We then successfully shot
another missile at it. This was testing the ATBM capability.
Later as the manuverability of aircraft increased we developed
and installed an improvement to the missile's turning ability,
increasing it from 7 G's to 10 G's.
The warheads were developed by the Army using inhouse
organizations such as Picatinny Arsenal.
1. Nike Hercules used the W-31 warhead.
2. Although some procedures regarding
the storage and handling of nuclear weapons remains
classified today, the Nike missile warhead section
(M-22, M-23 or M-97) was an integral part of the
Nike missile. Since the warhead section was part
of the missile, it was stored either in underground
magazines or at special ammunition supply points.
At those sites that had nuclear warhead-armed missiles,
the storage procedures were established by higher
headquarters, with nuclear-armed missiles stored
either in separate magazines or in a separate section
of a magazine separated from the non-nuclear missiles.
3. There were no ordnance officers assigned to the
Table of Organization and Equipment (TO&E) of a
Nike firing battery.
4. Details of when the nuclear
weapons were armed are not available. However,
there were several safety devices built into the
missile that required certain "G" forces on firing
to "arm" the missile in flight, and certain
barometric and other safety devices to assure
it did not detonate below a minimum safe burst
altitude.
5. Even today, the government "neither confirms
nor denies" the presence of a nuclear weapon at
any given site (or base or ship). ...
Nike Ajax did not have a nuclear capability.
The basis of much of the answer above is taken
from Chuck Hansen's book,
"U.S. Nuclear Weapons-The Secret History".
Bud Halsey, Site Manager,
Nike Site SF-88, Golden Gate National Recreation Area
----------- End of Bud Halsey's answer ----------
Here is a
list of U.S. nuclear warheads including the W31
The Army is
willing to donate surplus Nike equipment to us, but the cost of
transporting it to the site from Army depots in Pennsylvania, Colorado
and Utah must be borne by the volunteers. Also, most of the Nike
equipment has now been destroyed or sold to scrap dealers. I sometimes
have to buy critical pieces from scrap dealers (with my own money) just
to get a piece we need. Our greatest expenses these days, aside from
transportation costs, are for paint and rust inhibitors.
I am able to
get some surplus equipment from the military (e.g. a fork lift,
shelving, etc.) through the Defense Relocation Management Offices (DRMO)
that are redistributing Department of Defense surpluses to other
agencies as a result of military base closures.
None of our volunteers,
including me, get paid for our work. In 1996, we donated 9,000 hours of
volunteer work to this site.
Nike Site
The Fort Point and Presidio
Historical Association, who handles our restoration account, is a
501(c)3 organization under federal and state tax codes, so contributions
are fully tax deductible.
When Nike Hercules was introduced and
Nike Ajax removed, the former fueling area became the assembly and
warheading area where explosive parts of Nike Hercules were assembled.
Thus, the berm continued to provide protection for others at the site in
the event of accidental explosion. The warheading building in Ajax
times was where the missiles were assembled. In Hercules times, the
warheads were placed into the missile at this spot. It was felt that
the placement of warheads, particularly the nuclear ones, could be done
better inside better than outside in the cold or rain.
One method was to bring the first missile up on the elevator launcher
(launcher #1) and fire it from the launcher #1. Then lower the elevator
to the magazine, get the second missile, take it up and fire it from the
launcher #1. You could repeat this process six times until all missiles
in the magazine were fired. Your rate of fire is limited in this process
by the speed by which you could move the missile (below ground) onto the
elevator, raise the elevator (34 seconds) and fire. The advantages of
this method include speed, working below ground in the magazine and
perhaps a better sequence of selecting the missile (and warhead) to
fire.
The other method, the method usually used when you had sufficient
time, was to bring four missiles up one at a time placing them on the
three "satellite" above-ground (launchers #2, #3 & #4). The fourth
missile to be raised would be on the elevator launcher (#1) and it would
normally be fired first. This would clear the elevator so it could
return below to pick up the first "reload" missile. This would be fired
next, and the elevator would go down again to get the second "reload"
(the last remaining missile in the magazine). Once that missile was
fired, the three satellite launchers would be fired in any sequence the
commander ordered. Advantages of this system is that it gets 4 of your
6 missiles above ground before firing in a relatively short time (about
5 minutes) before any firing begins, pre-launch procedures can be
accomplished with no firing underway, and the crew can take cover.
Regardless of the method used, keep in mind several facts. The actual
firing generated considerable noise and flame, but the effects of firing
last but a split second. Some minor damage to the launcher may occur
(paint burned or a cable singed) but usually you can fire again about as
fast as you can reload the launcher and have the missile tracking radar
return to lock onto the second missile. Also remember that the other
section or sections have their missiles ready to fire, so you can skip
from section to section within the battery thereby giving any section a
few more minutes to prepare the launcher to fire again. Hope that
clears this point up.
Is it safe to fire off of the launcher on the elevator?
The elevator doors, in the open position, hang down, and in the closed position
are raised to form a cover over the magazine (and the elevator itself
now in the "down" position). The closed doors keep rain, weather and outside
stuff out of the magazine. When the elevator is raised, it
goes up for several extra inches when it reaches the top, then it settles on
four steel locking bars. The locking bars support
the elevator for firing. Without the elevator being on locking bars,
upon firing the downward thrust of the rocket cluster would drive the
elevator and missile downward overcoming the hydraulic pressure that
raised it initially.
Return to beginning of Frequently Asked Questions
> Question:
An example of a major component test is the system of tests for the analog
computer. It could be put into a test mode, and a number of preset input
conditions could be selected, and the outputs could be checked roughly on
the plotting boards and in detail on a special meter. (The tracking radar
self tests of leveling and bore sighting are covered in another segment.)
An example of a test from the previous system into the system under test is
positioning the tracking radars to specified elevation, azimuth, and range and
observing the correct values in the computer output.
An example of a test to the next system is the arrival of the
missile predicted intercept azimuth angle at the missile.
One thing that was taken on faith was the ability of the booster rocket igniter,
the sustainer motor igniter, and the warheads to actually fire. (Electrical continuity
through the various igniters or squibs could and was tested at low current without
igniting the unit.)
The proper operation (ignition) at normal current was assumed. In practice shots,
this was not a high failure rate item.
In actual practice (test firings at the test ranges), this testing and verification
seemed to work very well. The major problem that I have heard about was a
low percentage (3%??) of "moon shot"s. This was where the missile launched but
did not appear to accept any commands, and continued vertically until out of the
tracking range of the missile tracking radar.
Q - What is an Analog Computer?
Q) What is the biggest range (voltage)?
Q) What is the voltage for 1 second?
How do you convert the radar slant range and antenna angles into
Cartesian coordinates?
The potentiometer is specially constructed (wire wound)
to produce the trigonometric sin of the elevation angle
multiplied by the slant range voltage giving
the height of the tracked object. This height is the height
of a horizontal plane through the tracking radar.
The cosine output of the elevation potentiometer (driven by
the elevation angle and the slant range voltage) is the
horizontal range used below.
North (X direction)
This potentiometer is constructed to produce the trigonometric
cosine (and sin) of the azimuth angle. The cosine of the
antenna angle times the horizontal range voltage (from above)
gives the NorthSouth (X direction) voltage.
Antennas don't drift much in azimuth angle so verifying the
antenna azimuth angles is checked maybe once a month.
East (Y direction)
How do you get the radars to agree the Target/Missile
is at the same Height, North, East?
After leveling, and boresighting (align the optical telescope
parallel with the radar beam), the antennas are pointed so the
telescopes look at each other. They should be 180 degrees
different in azimuth and the sum of the elevation angles must be
0 degrees. If not, adjust them to be such.
The alignment to North is not so critical (mis-alignment will
not cause a missile miss) - but will cause human confusion.
The North Star appears to go in a little circle about the rotational
axis of the earth. The maximum error is 0.5 degree (about the
diameter of the moon).
We found the North Star with the Target Tracking telescope,
found middle azimuth between furthest east and west and
called that north, and lined up the acquisition radar to match.
Part of your real job as battery commander is to assure that
all required adjustments are performed correctly, frequently
enough so the potential accuracy of the system is available
at all times the system is scheduled to be available for action.
NOTE: The various daily checks and adjustments take over half an
hour - much too long to do if the enemy is flying toward you.
Frank E. Rappange
The Event Recorder uses values assuming all adjustments
are correct. If they are not, you have just fooled your self
into thinking every thing went well when in fact you could have
missed by 100 yards, probably causing the target a minor bump.
How many tubes are in the computer?
A test antenna with weak radar signal is permanently mounted
on a tall pole about 500 yards away from the tracking antennas.
This test antenna also has optical targets
(correctly offset about 4 feet to allow for offset of tracking
antenna telescope) to adjust the tracking antenna telescope
to point parallel with the antenna radar beam.
This completes actual bore sighting. The following helps assure
that both antennas agree (especially azimuth).
The Target Tracking Antenna and Missile Tracking Antennas are
pointed at each other, the telescopes pointed at cross hairs placed
in front of each telescope and other adjustments are made.
The procedure is a bit long to describe and understand
in this time frame.
What is the Hercules missile data again If you have comments or suggestions, Send e-mail
to Ed Thelen
Return to Home Page
Updated Febuary 6, 2002
Historic Structure Report?
Answer by Anjanette Sivilich
Site Dismantling?
Answer by me
> Do you know what process was used to decommission most areas? Were they
> filled with dirt, water, concrete?
Nope, as best I have heard,
the Army
- removed the transportable military equipment,
supplies, beds, plates, paint, brooms, ...
- did a general "police the area" to remove unsightly material,
- closed and locked the doors, gates, ...
- had the utilities disconnected - electricity, water, phones, ...
and told the land management authority that the area was available.
After that a wide variety of things happened ranging from:
- becoming a museum (formal as SF-88), or informal as MS-20
- basicly left alone -
- some buildings used for other purposes
- obliterated (magazines filled in, buildings leveled),
now parks (like C-43), empty land, apartment houses
Answer by me
>
> I for the life of me don't remember the missles being
> moved out in the media or anything. Did they dismantle
> them and quietly truck them out?
The missiles were shipped to sites in major parts
in large (say 10 foot long max) containers.
I *imagine* they left the same way.
A complete missile is a bit of a bother in length
and the fins make a "bulky" load. And I imagine
army trucks with large containers moving about are
not too newsworthy, soldiers probably not popular
interview subjects - no crisis - boooring -
won't sell any more newsprint -
Also likely is that the shipments probably
were not scheduled for peak traffic times -
if nothing else less risk of traffic accident,
traffic tie up, shorter transit time,
easier escort, ...
I have heard stories that the nuclear warheads
were removed from some sites by helicopter -
Radar Interference?
Answer by Doyle Piland
> My question: How does this type of
> interference arise? Does the energy
> directed in one beam from a TTR or MTR
> interfere with others ... or with the
> display equipment?
This certainly is possible. One thing to keep in mind is that all of the
energy emitted by a radar, radio, or other type of emitting device is not
contained in the "beam." There are sidelobes, backlobes, back scatter,
reflections, etc. with energy bouncing around all over the place.
> I also wonder if the potential for such
> "interference" had to be considered when
> siting the bases ... or did a 10-mile
> separation mean that there would be no
> problem?
Yes ... No. Yes, potential interference had to be considered in siting,
not only from other Nike systems but from all other sources. They also had
to consider possible interference problems when assigning operating
frequencies. I'm not sure how it was done then, possibly the same as now
but, frequencies are assigned and authorized by an "Area Frequency
Coordinator" which is under the control of the FCC.
No, being 10 miles away didn't prevent interference. It sure reduced it
significantly but, did not eliminate the possibility. Thus, continued need
for prudent frequency assignment.
> I presume he was referring to the tracking
> radars, not the ACQ/LOPAR.
No. All radars can experience and cause interference problems.
> What about civilian ATC radars or military
> surveillance (Long Range Radar or Gap Filler
> sites)? I suppose these were all in different
> "bands" or wavelengths so it did not matter.
Being in a different "band" or operating at a different frequency doesn't
mean that interference is not a problem. Other equipment operating at or
near a harmonic of the assigned frequency may also interfere.
> However, some surveillance radars (the Air
> Force's powerful LRR radar site at Montauk
> AFS at the tip of Long Island, NY, comes
> to mind) did cause interference with television
> reception back in the 1960s, according to
> reports I've read.
That is most likely true. Keep in mind that all transmitters radiate
outside of their set frequency. High power radars are more prone to cause
problems than lower power radars. There is both "in-band" and
"out-of-band" spurious signals radiated. These can be very disruptive to
other electronics equipment operating in the area without even knowing it.
Additionally, internal operating frequencies such as the "Intermediate
Frequency" (IF) used in a radar may radiate to some extent and cause
interference with other things.
Additionally, almost anything electronics or electrical may also cause
interference problems. For example, the computer you are sitting at
reading this is a fairly noisy device. It in fact emits several signals,
the most predominant of these is its clock frequency. For example, mine
being a little older than I would like, operates at 133 MHz. It emits a
signal at 133 MHz among others, some depending on what the system is doing
at the time. A light switch emits a small noise spike when it is turned
on. Relays opening and closing produces noise spikes. Electric motors,
gas filled light bulbs, hair dryers, electric razors, etc. all emit noise.
One other thing to keep in mind, electronic equipment that emits a certain
frequency signal are also most likely susceptible to interference from that
same frequency.
> Was "interference" of some type a problem at
> Nike sites? Could someone named "Ivan" have
> sat on a hill near a Nike site outside of
> New York City and simply broadcast some type
> of RF which would have prevented a site (or
> sites) from functioning?
What you are talking about here is a special kind of interference called
"jamming." Whether it was from "Ivan" sitting on a hill, an airplane
circling out some distance from the site radiating (standoff jammer), or a
plane coming straight in radiating an interference signal, it has the same
effect. That was what all the Electronic Counter-Counter Measures (ECCM)
equipment was in the Nike for. It caused problems but, did not prevent
sites from functioning. Especially after the TRR was incorporated into the
system.
Well. End of basic introduction to a career field in EMC.
(ElectroMagnetic Compatability)
Doyle Piland
Hercules Post Launch Details
Ed Thelen's comments in italics
There has been some discussion about Nike Hercules launch and which
direction the missile flies? Does your memory agree that they were
launched at 85 degrees,
(Yes - there was limited adjustment}
then booster separation to an assumed
site (booster disposal area), then the missile had to roll stabilize with
tunnel #4 facing to earth
(after roll stabilization, the belly (down) of the missile faced the predicted
intercept point.)
before steering commands could be given?
(Yes)
(Yes)
(The missile went "just about" straight up for 4.4 seconds, during
that time 0 g (go straight) steering commands were sent to it. There was
no circuit in the missile to refuse steering commands.)
(Not exactly, the computer only knew tracking data, there was no
roll-stabilization signal as such (no telemetry). A timer in the computer
measured the time from "Missile Away", (missile climbing) and allowed
for the following times
then the computer started sending commands (usually a big dive) to get the missile
going toward the target. If the missile did not appear to be responding to
steering commands
This did occasionally happen - it was called a "moon-shot".)
(Site planning suggested that the launchers to be placed
between the radar (IFC) area and the expected target area.
This reduced
(Plus or minus 70 degrees of the direction of the predicted intercept
at the time of launch. If the missile flew in a direction out of the
range of angles, it risked "gyro tumble" - and it would not know which
direction was "up" and all reference between computer directions and
missile directions would be lost.
Was Hercules ever deployed as an ABM (AntiBallisticMissile)?
Was Hercules ever deployed as an ABM ? Were the tests against ballistic
missiles just "lets see what would happen" or was it intended to
be used against ballistic targets?
There seems to have been quite an attempt to qualify the
Nike Hercules against shorter range (slower, like a SCUD)
ballistic missiles.
Cancer caused by NIKE or HAWK radiation?
Have you ever heard about cancer caused by NIKE or HAWK radiation?
Hello Geert
When I was in High School (1948ish) I used to sneak into
the electronics labs at the University of Minnesota
where they were playing with microwave generators.
They had some power coming out of a microwave horn.
I was advised not to look down the microwave horn
and to not put my eyes into the beam.
If you put "steel wool" in the beam, it would spark and
burn wonderfully. If you put your hand in the beam
it would feel warm in about 3 seconds, and soon really
uncomfortably hot in about 10 seconds. Yes, I did the
steel wool and hand warming experiments, several times.
These microwave intensities were over 1,000 higher
than found on the *OUTSIDE* of radar antenna systems.
(To form a good beam, you must spread the radiation
wide and high over the beam forming structure,
like an lens, parabola, or phased array.)
The Nike TTR had an average power (not pulse power)
of about 200 watts. Spread evenly over the 6 foot
diameter antenna (a good approximation) the heating
value is about 70 watts per square meter.
Direct sunlight has about 14 times more heating power
per square meter, and many times more capability to do
chemical changes in cells.
Where can I get a Nike?
Nike Ajax for auction at
e-bay
Spotted by(Tom Vaughn)
Nike Missions - Low Altitude vs. Surface to Air?
> > What was the difference between a LA and a SA mission?
Image of vertical plotting board
As you can see on the vert-plot-board -right hand side-,
there was a so called "Dead Zone" and "Low Altitude Zone" or "Region".
The LA-Zone starts at about 20 kyds range and 5 kfeet altitude.
The altitude is raised to 10 kfeet at about 60 kyds.
I can`t remember that we ever used this "option" during "operation".
In the mid 60`s the "option" became obsolete because HAWK was
"invented".
NIKE was used for (mostly) high altitude engagements and the SS-mission.
However, I remember that there were some checks with the computer and
the Low Altitude Mission option.
Actually, it was an electronic smoothing circuitry for the
erratic low altitude tracking data.
Erractic because of the low "grazing" angle of the track antenna and the
effects of clutter on the track data, pushing the missiles "G"
accelerations to the limits.
Two decades later, after the computer was modified to digital,
it was possible to evaluate the effects of low angle tracking
using the computer "Printout".
It was useless to fire a missile at such a target because of the
IEB - Indicated Error at Burst or "miss-distance".
The above words are true for tracking under ecm conditions also.
Wünsche Euch einen sehr schoenen 2ten Weihnachtstag!
Donald E. Bender added
I do not believe that were any HAWK units deployed as a part of the
continental US Air Defense - in Pittsburg or anywhere else - except
possibly Florida.
HAWK was assinged to many reserve/national guard units throughout the US
but, were never a part of the active defense scheme. They were in reserve,
supposedly ready for deployment wherever in the world they were needed.
I have recently talked with several who had careers in HAWK and they know
of no permanent HAWK Air Defense sites in the US.
Doyle Piland
Doyle,
I'm glad that you addressed this issue. I have
also never heard of any Hawk units deployed here
in the states, except for the Miami-Homestead
Defense and sites in the Florida Keys.
There were PLANS to deploy Hawks at 41 tactical
sites along the Gulf Coast by 1961, which were
only parly realized when some sites were installed
in Florida during the Cuban Missile Crisis. There
were some other temporary sites as well.
Hawk missile sites were typically equipped
with 6 launchers, each launcher having 3
missiles.
According to one of my historical books, the
8th Bn., 15th Arty. from Ft. Lewis in Washington
set up Hawk sites at Patrick, MacDill and Homestead
AFBs during the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962. Hercs
of the 2nd. Bn., 52nd. Arty. arrived from Ft. Bliss
soon afterward. All of this was under the 13th
Atry. Group based at Homestead AFB.
After the crisis subsided, permanent sites for
both Hercules and Hawk were made. Hawk sites
were located at the following locations:
HM-12 Miami/Old Cutler Road
HM-39 Miami/North Canal Drive
HM-59 6-mi. S of Florida City
HM-60 4-mi. SW of Florida City (reloc. to HM-59)
HM-84 7-mi. NNW Homestead AFB
These were in addition to several
Nike Hercules sites in that same area.
Richmond AFS had a Missile Master
and later, a BIRDIE facility for these
sites.
Other Hawk sites were located in the
Key West Defense Area:
KW-10 Boca Chica Key
KW-15 Sugarloaf Key
KW-24 Geiger Key
KW-65 Key West International Airport.
KW-80 Fleming Key
A Missile Master (and, presumably, later
follow-on systems) located at NAS Key West
coordinated these missile defenses which
remained active until 1979.
These were under the 6th Bn., 65th. Arty
(later, 1st Bn., 65th Arty.).
My source for this information
includes the following book:
"To Defend and Deter: The Legacy of the
United States Cold War Missile Program"
by John C. Lonnquest and David F. Winkler
Thanks for keeping us on the "straight and
narrow" with our history, Doyle!
Regards,
Don B.
400 Hz and Nike funny nose spike?
Answers by Ed Thelen
> Two technical questions:
> Why was 400Hz electrical power used?
> I once asked an electrical engineer and he said
> it might be because a higher frequency allows smaller motors
> to be used for the same power. Does this sound right?
Yes - more specifically, less iron is needed.
(About 80 percent less iron is required for transformers.)
The subject is a little complicated in the case of motors,
but the results are real. So 400 Hz is great in situations
where weight is a big factor.
However, lower frequencies (such as 50 or 60 hertz)
are preferable for long transmission lines.
The reduced effects of capacitance and inductance
are helpful here. Interesting world :-) Many compromises.
> Also: Various HERCULES photos and diagrams appear to show
> different warhead/instrumentation sections.
> Some have a plain nose spike, others a "pitch-yaw" weathervane.
> The foremost antenna "fins" have what look like pitot tubes in
> some views that are absent in others.
> Can someone indentify the differences?
Apparently the plain old nose spike is for conventional
warheads, and the fancy nose is for "special" warheads.
I am told that the fancy nose is to help prevent
low bursts of the "special" warheads.
> Thanks,
>
> KL
Site Uniformity?
Answer from Donald E. Bender
Zero Length Launcher?
> to seek some information/facts about how the guided missile take
> off/lauch and how we control it. I don't want in details, just tell me
> as short as you can.
"Special Weapon" Security?
How big is a Nike site?
Type Magazine Length Width Comment
1. Type A 42 feet 63 feet (Ajax only)
2. Type B 49 feet 60 feet (Ajax only)
3. Type B (Mod) 49 feet 60 feet (Universal Ajax & Hercules)
4. Type B (RS) 49 feet 123 feet (Rising Star - Greenland only)
5. Type C 42 feet 63 feet (Ajax only)
6. Type C (Mod) 42 feet 63 feet (Hercules)
7. Type D 62 feet 68 feet (Hercules)
Note: No Type A magazines were ever built. No Type C magazines were
built. Type B Modified and Type C modified were Ajax pits converted to
handle the Nike Hercules M-36 launcher. Rising Star pits were employed
only at Thule AFB in Greenland. Type D were Nike Hercules only, built in
the second "wave" of building, ca. 1960.
SAGE computer--
Image of a Sage tube section, 55 K bytes
It sounds so automatic and boring --
There was NO comment about that in Army manuals.
There was NO plan or thought of physical defense that
would keep out a determined Boy Scout troop. A ground
attack coordinated with an air attack would have left
any site I know of useless. (Granted, trying to coordinate
a ground attack in Chicago with an air attack would
have been a tricky balance of spy vs counter-spy. But
several independent groups, given action words - like
in France in late WWII - ...)
Got any info on Zeus, Spartan, Sprint?
Answer #2 from Donald E. Bender
Zeus was similar in appearance to
the later Spartan. A 3 stage ABM, "the fastest, quickest accelerating air
defense vehicle ever successfully fired". Tested in 1962 at Kwajalein, it
intercepted an ICBM. It repeated this intercept nine more times in test
firings. In may, 1963, Zeus intercepted a satellite in earth orbit. Missile
would reach altitude of 200-250 miles within 2 minutes of being fired. Nuke
WH, yield unknown.
ZEUS STATS
Length: 48 ft
diameter; 60 in.
weight: 40,000 lb
range: 300 mi
alt; 200 mi
guidance; command via ground radar
In 1963, Zeus was canx, and became a building block for the Nike X Project,
later called Sentinel System, then changed to Safeguard System.
Spartan was a long-range, more powerful version of Zeus. First fired March
30, 1968, at Kwajalein island.
SPARTAN SPECS
Shape Canard
length 55 ft
diameter 43 in
weight 33,400 lb
speed Mach 10
range 460 mi
altitude 300 mi
propellant solid, 3 stage
guidance command via ground radar
warhead 5 megaton thermonuke
launcher monorail
SPRINT
THIS IS WHAT IS SITTING OUT BEHIND THE MUSEUM. It is a very tall cone. Ultra
fast, but speed not given. It does say the missile reached intercept altitude
within seconds after launch! So fast it heated to white-hot enroute target.
I now believe this is what I saw in the movie. I remember it was conical.
It is possible, even probable, that Sprint was considerably faster than Zeus.
I do not know how guidance and WH components can be built to withstand such
high G forces. Or the airframe and propellant either, for that matter. I guess
the cone is the ultimate high G shape. Amazing!!
SPRINT STATS:
shape cone frustrum
length 27 ft
diameter 4.5 ft at base of cone
weight 7,500 lb
range 25 mi
propellant solid, 2 stage
guidance command via radar
warhead low-kiloton thermonuke
launcher gas ejection
Is there any information about Bomarc?
Can I get a Nike for display?
... We are looking for a missile that we can mount at Dyess AFB in Abilene Texas
and dedicate to the 5th /517th there. Can you give me any help on where to look
and who to contact. ...
Ed Thelen asked me to reply to your e-mail to him in which you asked
about acquiring a Nike Hercules missile for display purposes at Dyess
AFB. As you can imagine, they are very difficult to find these days
since the United States has not used them for over 14 years now. All
missiles remain the property of the US government, so the first place I
would begin my search would be the US Army. The US Army Missile Command
at Redstone Arsenal, Huntsville, AL, is the principal Army agency with
responsibility for the Nike missiles. They, perhaps, might know the
whereabouts of any remaining Nike missiles in the United States Army.
Any missiles the Army might have would also have to be cleared by the
Army's Center for Military History in Washington, DC, prior to release
to a veterans' organization.
Regards,
Bud Halsey
Site Manager, Nike Site SF-88, GGNRA, National Park Service
What is "SOS"? (Served often on U.S. Nike sites)
Dear Ed,
Came across this recipe for our favorite breakfast:
(Chipped Beef on Toast) or (Sh__ on a Shingle)
2 ounces of dried beef
1 tablespoon butter
1 (10 3/4 ounce) can of cream potato soup or cream sauce
2/3 cup of milk, about
Buttered Toast
Pour hot water over dried beef, then drain.
Recipe For The Ultimate
Power Breakfast:
SOS
Who uses NIKE systems currently?
and there have been many modernizations -
1) the vacuum tube range units for the MTR and TTR have been replaced
2) Block III MWO (1983 in Greece and NAMFI)
3) solid state IF strips
Mobile Nike Ajax Unit?
Return to beginning of Frequently Asked Questions
Many thanks for the interesting update regarding mobile Ajax units!
I suspected this was true -- for there were mobile Hercules units. I
believe the Hercules missile were carried on a "ready round transporter"
or some such device (a trailer) which had stabilizing outriggers that
could be set up, and a blast deflector plate, and the missile would be
launched from that set up. I wonder if it was the same for the Ajax, or
if they had to be set up separately on launcher-loader equipment set up
in the field?
Interestingly, the Army experimented with carrying (and firing, I believe)
the Hercules from the experimental "GOER" all-wheel-drive, all-terrain
vehicle during the early Sixties. I believe it was a success, but I don't
think that a set up of this sort was ever used operationally.
Thanks again for looking into this ... and for all of the Nike Ajax "firsts".
Best regards,
Don Bender
bender@alpha.fdu.edu
http://alpha.fdu.edu/~bender/nike.html
____________________________________________________________________________
On Fri, 1 May 1998, MalpaisMsl wrote:
> Hi, Don.
>
> Sometime ago you asked if the Nike Ajax could have been used as a mobile Unit.
> My answer: "I doubt it." Today I received a little brochure from Curtis
> Thienes > curtt@execpc.com< which opens that possibility. The brochure was
> printed for "ORGANIZATION DAY", 15 May, 1958. It lists Units of the 2nd
> Guided Missile Group of the 1st Guided Missile Brigade, Ft. Bliss, TX.
>
> One of those Units, the 495th AAA Msl BN (Nike) (I was assigned to D Btry,
> 495th from '54-'57) is noted for several "firsts", among them :
>
> "First Nike Ajax unit to operate in the field as a semimobile unit, in
> conjunction with the troop test of the semimobile Nike Ajax Battalion, 1957."
>
> That is all it says. But, somebody, somewhere, will know about it.
>
> Probably of less interest to you, but notable, the 495th AAA was:
>
> 1st all-American AAA unit to fire on enemy aircraft in the European Theater,
> October, 1942.
>
> Credited with destroying 252 German V-1 (buzzbomb) missiles in Antwerp,
> Belgium.
>
> 1st Skysweeper (75MM) unit in the US Army.
>
> 1st AAA Missile Battalion (Nike) in the Army.
>
> 1st Nike Ajax Battalion to fire ASP at Red Canyon Range Camp, NM., 1955.
>
> 1st Nike Ajax unit to fire ASP using the offset method of fire (B-45
> aircraft), 1956.
>
> 1st Nike Ajax unit to fire at the McGregor Missile range, 5 April, 1957.
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
>
> So, there was some type of at least experimental SEMI-mobile Nike unit.
> That's all I know, will update when more info forthcoming. Sending CC to our
> group, someone may know more.
>
> Best regards,
>
> JP Moore
Mission of Ft. Bliss, Red Canyon, McGregor?
> gross ignorance on my part. I have no idea of the organizations
> there (I only remember "TAS" (The Artillery School).
>
> Could you fill me in on the Ft. Bliss "scene"?
I have forgotten some of the official battalion designation however:
> Red Canyon--> McGregor (spelling) was performed
Nike missile and launcher for sale?
"... come on, tell us Ed! -- where ARE those UFO Records!!!!! :-)"
Return to beginning of Frequently Asked Questions
"... requests ... One was from a woman who wanted to know if she could get
radar "records" for UFOs!"
Do you have information about European Nike sites?
Return to beginning of Frequently Asked Questions
Ed's questions/comments in italics
from D. KALDERIS (CHMDK@EAST-01.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK)
Anyway, NAMFI is a really exciting base. I started going there when I
was 7-8 years old but I still find it so fascinating. First of all,
the scenery is like desert, something very uncommon for Crete, since
it is a rocky (and low vegetation) sort of island.
The electronics, radars and offices are well above the launching
area and the view from there is splendid. Every time an international
team was testing a missile, there were barbecues, drinks and
generally, the atmosphere was very relaxed and informal. The only
annoying thing was, that a launching programmed to happen at 10 in
the morning, was taking place 1-2 hours later (if we were lucky
enough) due to all sorts of problems....
1) cities/populations
2) fixed military installations
3) mobile troops
4) cover a great number of areas
providing a wide umbrella
for the mobile troops
5) other
6) a few or all of the above
?
Option 1) (the book solution) set the MTR magnatron
frequency to the frequency of maximum power.
Option 2) set the MTR magnatron frequency away
from the missile transponder frequency (and the
receiver frequency) such that the ground clutter
in the launcher is reduced (and the signal from
the transponder is seen more clearly).
Do you know the later answer to MTR frequency
question? If not, do you know of anyone who does?
Do you have biographical information on Percy Spencer?
(Percy Spencer was one of the primary
figures in developing Radar, a watercooled magnetron in 1946, microwave
ovens, etc. )
Copyright ©, 1996-97 by J. Carlton Gallawa
Inventor Spencer
Doctor Spencer continued at Raytheon as a senior consultant until he died at
the age of 76. At the time of his death, Dr. Spencer held more than a
hundred patents and was considered one of the world's leading experts in the
field of microwave energy, despite his lack of a high school education.
Allaire: I guess around '43. But eventually Raytheon introduced a lot of new
techniques. For example, it would take practically all day to take a solid
chunk of copper and machine it out, bore it out to make the cavities and to
make the input holes for the filaments and the output holes. Percy Spencer,
who was running the microwave tube division at the time, came up with a
process whereby one could make thousands of copper anodes in a short period
of time. How did he do that? Instead of a machinist taking a big chunk of
copper and spending all day long boring and drilling, Percy Spencer took
thin sheets of copper and with a die just stamp out laminations. Then the
laminations would be thoroughly cleaned, stacked on a fixture with layers of
soldering between, which would then also be stamped out so you would have
the exact configuration. Then run them through a hydrogen furnace. The
furnace would melt the solder and bond the copper laminations together.
That's the way production was dramatically increased.
Do you have information on "off-shore" or foreign Nike sites?
Return to beginning of Frequently Asked Questions
Nike Manning Requirements
Return to beginning of Frequently Asked Questions
Would like to find out as much information regarding manning crews
(numbers of people, crew rotations, maintenance manpower requirements,
etc. as possible. I'm looking at new replacement type system.
My return e-mail address: jd_warren@huntsville.sparta.com
- Ajax missiles demanded much more sustainer motor and fuel maintenance
- The number of launcher "pits" per site could
range from 1 to up to 3?. Each pit requiring a firing crew.
Unfortunately I don't know the firing crew duties,
but expect a useful minimum of 3, one chief to
handle the phone & Launch Control Panel,
an a reasonable minimum of 2 shove missiles about.
Listed below is a matrix of other selected TO&Es showing the progression
from Nike Ajax to Nike Hercules. Generally, the TO&E of a headquarters
unit of Nike Ajax is the same as that of a Nike Hercules unit, since
headquarters are similar and the change from Ajax to Hercules is not too
radical and where differences can be made up by augmentation teams.
Since the TO&Es of Ajax units are not found in "Series G", I'll omit the
series letter.
TO&E # Unit Off WO EM Total
44-102G Hq & Hq Battery, ADA Brigade (Conus) 15 3 46 64
44-112G Hq & Hq Battery, ADA Group (Conus) 10 3 55 68
44-166G Hq & Hq Detachment, ADA Battalion (Herc) 5 0 7 12
44-545G ADA Battalion, Nike Hercules) (Conus) 27 21 573 621
44-546G Hq & Hq Battery, ADA Bn (Nike Herc)(Conus) 11 5 69 85
44-547G ADA Firing Battery, Nike Hercules, Conus 4 4 126 134
44-548G ADA Double Firing Btry, (NH) (Conus) 6 7 223 236
Note: These are only a few ADA TO&Es for Nike missile units, picked at
random. They are all similar, but slightly different. Many require
augmentation teams to "flesh them out".
Unit Nike Ajax Basic Herc Improved Herc ATBM
HHD, ADA Bn N/A 44-166 44-166 N/A
ADA Bn (NA)(NH) 44-145 44-445 44-545 44-535
HHB, ADA Bn (NH) 44-146 44-496 44-546 44-536
Firing Btry, (NH) 44-147 44-447 44-547 44-537
Double Btry, (NH) 44-148 44-448 44-548 N/A
Universal(NH)Btry N/A 44-139 44-549 N/A
These are a few augmentation teams, picked at random, that can be added,
as need, to any ADA TO&E to perform the required mission.
TO&E Team Function Off WO EM Total
1-500G FB Airplane, Command and utility 1 1 1 3
FE Helicopter, utility 0 2 2 4
8-500G SB Medical support 0 0 4 4
19-500G IC Security (dismounted) 0 0 4 4
29-500G CA Unit mess augmentation 0 0 1 1
CC Mess augmentation (cook) 0 0 3 3
HA Chaplain team 1 0 1 2
DI Wheeled vehicle repairman 0 0 1 1
DJ General vehicle repairman 0 0 1 1
DK Senior vehicle repairman 0 0 1 1
DM Motor sergeant 0 0 1 1
44-510G FB Command & staff support section 2 0 0 2
GD AD Direction Ctr (SAGE)(BIRDIE) 4 0 4 8
GE AD Direction Ctr (Manual AADCP) 4 0 8 12
HD Cmd Post Hq Sec (AN/TSQ-51) 1 0 7 8
HE Monitor/Data Col Sec (AN/TSQ-51) 4 0 12 16
HF Maintenence Sec (AN/TSQ-51) 0 1 12 13
HG Remote Radar Integration Sta 0 0 10 10
HH Fire Distribution Team 0 0 4 4
HI Terminal data link repair tm 0 0 1 1
44-568G ADA Ops Det (BIRDIE) 5 1 41 47
How many missiles per Nike site?
Return to beginning of Frequently Asked Questions
thanks
doug lupo, houston , tx (doug@bangate.compaq.com)
As usual, there is no quick and easy answer to your question about the
number of missiles normally stored, ready for action, in each "pit" at a
Nike Ajax or a Nike Hercules missile site. There are several variables
that affect the answer. First, we have to consider the physical type or
capacity of the magazine ("pit"), whether the missile is Ajax or
Hercules, and your definition of "ready for action". In the Nike Ajax
pits, some missiles could be stored without their tail fins [they could
be attached quickly]. Some were stored with their tail fins attached.
With this as a disclaimer, let's look at the answer to your questions:
Type Pit
Type Missile
All With Fins
- OR -
With Fins & Without Fins
A Ajax - OR -
B Ajax - OR -
B (Mod) Ajax - OR -
B (Mod) Hercules - OR - .
C Ajax - OR -
C (Mod) Hercules - OR - .
D Hercules - OR - .
Another National Park Service Nike site?(No)
Why did the Ajax have three warheads?
An ground guided missile has very little probablilty of hitting a flying aircraft.
A 1000 pound missile striking the body of an aircraft at 2000 mph
is overkill. (One or two hundred 7 mm high speed objects from a Nike is enough.)
Was a Nike ever fired at a "hostile" target?
Nike vs Russian SA-2?
My military service came in a little later as a participant in Uncle
Sam's great Southeast Asia war games but I seem to recall that the
Russian Guideline Sam's were pretty ineffective against a determined
attack - especially when some good ECM support was available. I believe
that the Russian Sam radar and guidance systems were similar to those
used by the Nike.
Bob said:
Site used two types of Radars Fan Song for Guidance Spoon Rest ? for lookout.
The SA-2 come of the ramp on its booster. The Booster burns for
3.3 seconds. Then it separated until this has happened guidance is
not active. The sustainer then burns for 22 seconds. Only at the end of the
burn is the SA-2 doing M2.5. So it accelerates slowly which means at
low altitude the
missile is moving quite slowly. Its ability to turn is a function of energy and air
density. At low level plenty of air but not much energy.
How to get Nike Parts?
January 2002,
Pete Kodis points out
Radio-Research
I'm sure
you guys know that parts are available from Radio Research in Connecticut; ...
584 N MAIN ST
WATERBURY, CT 06704-3506
Phone: (203) 753-5840
How are missiles and warheads selected for firing?
Your comments were that as soon as the missile burst
command was issued the MTR slewed to the next missile on the launch
pad. OK, how did the MTR know which missile to next pick up.
I will try to answer but what a taxing situation on the old gray
matter.
What about surface to surface mode?
" As you know us old Ordnance guys have established a web page and at that
web page is a series of pictures (8 I believe) of Nike Hercules in a
surface-to-surface mode. "
NIKE AJAX AND HERCULES ORDNANCE SUPPORT UNITS
What is a Warrant Officer?
What about the conventional warheads? storage?
Answer: The T-45 conventional high explosive warhead
weighed 1106 pounds and contained
600 pounds of HBX-6 military explosive.
Discussion: One of
the main reasons for placing a requirement for the Nike Hercules to have
a nuclear capability was to assure the complete destruction of the
weapon (presumably nuclear) that the bomber was carrying, and to remove
the possibility of the "dead man" effect of the bomb continuing to the
target area even after the plane was destroyed. Placing the plane (and
the weapon it was carrying) inside a nuclear fireball would assure the
destruction of the bomb. Our experiences against the SCUD missiles in
the Gulf War show that missiles were successfully engaged and knocked
down, but the SCUD's warheads continued into the target area, striking
the ground (not necessarily where they were intended to hit) but
never-the-less killing people and doing damage. Hitting a SCUD with
even a low yield nuclear weapon or placing it into a nuclear fireball
would have prevented this. A nuclear weapon also gave us the capability
to engage more than one enemy target (if planes are in formation) with
one missile. A third consideration for equipping Nike Hercules with the
nuclear capability was the advantage a nuclear weapon would have over a
conventional warhead in creating electromagnetic disruption; greater
heat, light and blast effects and greater areas of destruction.
Response: The
physical arrangement of missiles in magazines depended considerably on
rules and regulations established by higher headquarters. In most
instances, nuclear-equipped missiles at a given site were all stored in
a separate magazine. Where possible, they avoided storing conventional
and nuclear-equipped missiles in the same magazine, but in some
instances this had to be done. The exact mix of high yield and low
yield warheads in a given magazine varied depending on instructions from
higher headquarters. Note: even today, the government "neither confirms
nor denies the presence of nuclear weapons" at any specific site, ship
or base.
The conventional High Explosive (HE) warhead (T-45) was built
to be used only in the training mode. The crew wanted to see
the R-cat fall when they hit it. The HE warhead contained 650
pounds of Composition-B as its explosive and 20,000
square steel fragments, packed in two layers around the nose
part of the warhead.
What about the nuclear warheads?
Who's financing the restoration of the San Francisco site?
Can I contribute?
Basically, the Nike site is part of the
Golden Gate National Recreation Area, one of 379 national parks in the
United States. The Nike site, however, gets no federal funding, so
everything here (except the phone bill) is paid by donation money we get
or by individual contributions from the Nike site volunteers themselves
($7,000) was contributed by volunteers in 1996 alone).
What was the earth berm in the launcher area for?
As to how you could contribute, we of course accept all "sweat labor"--
the greatest source of our volunteer work force. If someone wants to
donate money, we accept that also. If someone were to send a check, it
should be made payable to the
"FORT POINT AND PRESIDIO HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION"
and earmarked "Nike Site".
c/o National Park Service
Bldg. 964, Ft. Barry
Sausalito, CA 94965-2609
I hope this information answers your questions. Bud Halsey, Site
Manager
Return to beginning of Frequently Asked Questions
How to the keep up a rate of fire while also
reloading the launchers?
When Nike
Ajax was used, they had to be fueled with very dangerous, explosive, and
corrosive fuel. The possibility of accidental explosion was very real
and present. The earth berm surrounded the fueling area, and in the
event of an accidental explosion, it would channel the explosive force
upward--not outward thereby giving others at the launch area a better
chance to survive the explosion.
> How were you guys suppose to reload the rails while firing was going on?
Answer from "Bud" Halsey
Concerning your question about sustaining the rate of fire and
reloading, you might recall the launchers are arranged by section in the
launch area. A section normally consisted of four launchers arrayed in
a line connected by transport and handling rails. Another section or
sections would be similarly arrayed nearby. For every four launchers,
there was usually an underground magazine where the missiles were
stored. If the magazine was a type "B" or type "D" magazine, there was
a launcher on the elevator, and three other "satellite" launchers above
ground (one launcher to the right of the elevator, two launchers to the
left as you face the principal direction of firing). With this
arrangement, you had several options on how you fired the missiles at a
sustained rate.
Q - Could tell me who the NIKE MISSILE was named after?
> You mention firing off the launcher on the elevator. Would that be dangerous?
Answer from "Bud" Halsey
Possibly you think the launcher on the
elevator, upon firing, places the magazine in some sort of jeopardy from
fire and burning debris. There is always that possibility, but the risk
is pretty minimal for the following reasons: When launcher #1 is raised
to its near vertical firing position, the nozzle ends of the rocket
motor cluster are not positioned directly above the elevator but are
actually positioned above the blast deflector behind and off the
elevator. With the extremely large thrust generated at the moment of
firing, the missile, and its trail of flame, is not near the elevator
for more than a split second. Remember, this missile goes off like a
bottle rocket, not like the space shots we see on TV where the rocket
seems to burn on the launcher for a long time before it begins to rise
slowly off the pad.
> Were the rails mechanized or would missile movement have to be done by the crew?
The Nike launching rails (supporting the missiles) were moved "by hand",
generally one person near the aft end of the missile (and rail)
and one person near the front end pushing the rail sideways to the desired launcher.
Two people helped prevent the rail twisting and then binding.
Return to beginning of Frequently Asked Questions
Q - How do you know it will work since you don't shoot it here?
Searching AltaVista for
An example is the slide rule, where length was a number
is a length between marks.
The Nike system used an electronic analog computer
where a voltage level was treated as a number. For instance,
0.7 millivolts is 1 yard
1.4 millivolts is 2 yards
0.7 volts is 1000 yards
70.0 volts is 100,000 yards
105.0 volts is 150,000 yards
Q) What is the voltage for 1 mile?
A) 1 mile is 1760 yards so 0.0007 volts * 1760 = 1.232 volts
A) +- 150 Volts
A) ???? 1 volt? ????
--------------------
The slant range from the tracking system is sent to the antenna
mount to the elevation potentiometer (on the antenna
elevation shaft).
-------------------
The horizontal range (from above) is sent to the antenna mount
azimuth potentiometer which is on the antenna azimuth shaft.
------------------
Another output of the azimuth potentiometer is the sin of the azimuth
angle times the horizontal range giving the EastWest (Y direction)
voltage.
A) about 250 vacuum tubes and 10 gas tubes (for power supplies)
Analog computers use "operational amplifiers".
This one uses about 70 operational amplifiers,
with 5 tubes for each 2 amplifiers,
35*5 = 175
And about 16 amplifiers to move motors (for potentiometers)
7*4 =
28
And about 8 power supplies about 5 tubes each
8*5 =
40
And other functions such as driving relays
10*1 =
10
total
about 250
length 39 feet
weight 10,550 pounds
length 27 feet
weight 5,250 pounds
body diam. 32 inches
fin diam. 90 inches
thrust 13,500 pounds
burn time 29 seconds
length 14 feet (including 2 feet of coupling with body
weight 5300 pounds
body diam. 34 inches
fin diam. 138 inches
thrust 173,600 pounds
burn time 3.4 sec
Return to beginning of Frequently Asked Questions
